Oh for gods sake! Showing religion the door.

One of the odd things I encountered when I first arrived in South Africa in December of ’79 – among  a bucket load of odd things in a country still entrenched in Apartheid – was the fact there were quite a number of items I couldn’t buy on Sunday based solely on religious reasons.

I had absolutely no interest in religion in those days so I never bothered to find out the exact reasons  why such things as toothpaste, deodorant and soap were ”off limits”.

This was part of what was called Sunday Observance and included the ban on the sale of  alcohol.

It was strange to walk into a corner cafe or national supermarket such as Checkers to find several isles ”roped off”.

But much like garages that were not allowed to sell petrol or diesel  over the weekends, (because of fuel shortages) one got used to it.

Stranger still, while such puritan by-laws meant you might have to walk around with smelly pits on Sunday you could still purchase a magazine such as Scope, which was a sort of cheap and very watered down SA version of Playboy. Topless was as risqué as it got, as far as I can recall, and all the featured models had stars covering their nipples. They were part of the photograph and could not be scratched off – so I was told.

Another law with a  religious foundation was one requiring Black South Africans who wished to work in the city to produce ( along with a ”Pass”) a Baptismal Letter. (proving they were Christian!)

During Apartheid, black South Africans couldn’t work in the cities if they didn’t have a baptismal letter, and so responsible parents baptized their children and gave them English middle names.

https://theinbetweenerspace.wordpress.com/2016/04/12/the-rise-of-secularism-in-south-africa/

Thank the gods all that nonsense has disappeared from the SA landscape. Although, I can allow myself a wry smile at the demise of Scope magazine.

Anyway, the primary reason I raised these issues is because of the  constant – and somewhat erroneous  – assertion by a number of apologists, and especially many of those on the internet and other social media, that Christianity is growing.

Simply looking at the direction South Africa is taking; a country which would once have been recognised as one of the most religious (Christian) countries in the world with around 83% claiming to be Christian in 2005 to 64% in 2012. It is fairly obvious which way this country is going.

From a purely numbers perspective the claim is correct: there are more Christians – and the ranks are being swelled from countries such as China – a vast pool of untapped impressionables just waiting to be indoctrinated via the missionary position.

The same could be said of many countries in sub-Saharan Africa – although I have already mentioned my country and  the way it is heading since the shackles of Apartheid were removed.

While the USA remains somewhat of an anomaly, being one of the most religious nations on the planet the rest of what would be regarded as Western Civilization is moving away from traditional Christian religion and embracing secular humanism – something the vocal apologist types claim is not happening – hence the misleading ”increasing numbers” claims.

And yet …. we regularly read posts where Christian hosts and their minions bemoan the decline in church attendance and church closures and the apparent negative impact secularism ( read atheism, and other associated ‘isms’) is having on society in general, and Western Civilization in particular.

If Christianity truly was the right direction for civilization to take then after 2000 years it is not unreasonable to expect its adherents to at least have sorted out which is the right form of Christianity?

Yet, we know full well this is not the case, and we still have several major different sects and tens of thousands of separate denominations, each one claiming its superiority and in many cases damning every other sect as heretical.

And of course there are also the fringe/extreme elements such as Young Earth Creationists.

So while the in-fighting continues, more and more people quietly walk away.

So what of the ”New Christians” from countries such as China?

Well, as my father might say: ”Doug, it’s a phase they have to go through.”

Based on the history of  other countries who’ve been obliged to put up with such supernatural nonsense these ”New Christians” will get over it as well. It’ll take time, and there will always be some religion around, but eventually it will be regarded  in a similar way as most people regard every other religion that has passed into the pages of history.

And for those religious folk reading along who might perhaps be grinding their teeth and mumbling imprecations along the lines of ”Just you wait ’til Jesus hears about this!”, or other even less savoury diatribes involving Pitchforks and Eternal Bonfires, it is worth considering that, genuine freedom to practice one’s religion (or not) is only possible in a secular democracy.

And Amen to that, right?

Ark.

 

146 thoughts on “Oh for gods sake! Showing religion the door.

    1. Must make note … where’s my pen … oh yes … today’s date: January 30, 2019, comment by Professor Taboo on Arkenaten’s blog– five words, 36 keystrokes.

      Store in safe place for posterity!

      Liked by 5 people

    1. Not that I can confirm or test well my theory Scottie, but I like it… since it came from my twisted, perverted brain. 🤩

      The U.S. is a land of immigrants, with the sharp exception of the Native Americans many of our forefathers obliterated and exterminated or forced onto very undesirable lands. Besides that, most/much of those immigrants were average-to-poor families seeking to escape the many prejudices and civil inequalities, class systems, and religious oppression/atrocities on their native continents. With this sector of immigrants (the majority of them at least) came with very little. This included poor education levels. I believe it is a trend/pattern that the more highly educated a population-sector, the less “religious” they are… on average. This theory, my theory has some very truthy pseudo-science. 😉 😛

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Hello Professor. I like the theory. Could that be one reason religious groups / churches / schools try to deny fact based educations, and why the republican party is constantly trying to remove funding from public schools? Seems they are trying to make a dumb labor class that has no choice but accept what ever the corporations demand. Hugs

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Well Scottie, it IS factual that public schooling — particularly those in low-income borderline-impoverished or impoverished — funding (federal & state) has been on a steady decline for decades. And the more noticeable declines are during Republican dominated Congresses and Administrations as a whole, with a few exceptions.

          Seems they are trying to make a dumb labor class that has no choice but accept what ever the corporations demand.

          This is a fair (speculative) assessment Scottie of public education, but MORE SO when one studies the ballistic growth nationwide (but definitely in the South or Republican states) of charter schools and districts, and private schools and districts. In those two systems curriculum can be WHATEVER the District Supervisors want to emphasize while keeping ‘disagreeable’ curriculums minimized. But then WHEN are their ever enough state or federal employees to go around in every science classroom or history/social studies classroom making sure that the teacher is providing a balanced lesson-plan of those subjects? If the schools principle is a born-again Fundy-Evangy Xian, what’s he going to do, honestly?

          Liked by 1 person

      2. @ Prof.

        Didn’t you have a wry smile when Pastor Rob-Everyone asserted that with the demise of Christianity, Europe is now Dumbing-Down? (or words to this effect)

        An odd assertion when one considers the intelligence level of the one asserting it.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Pfffffttttt, I did. I’ve stopped my notifications from his blog. Just a total waste of my time. Again, just like I told Pastor Mel multiple times…

          Why don’t you just make your blog Private Membership Only… if you don’t want alternative information/arguments, and only an echo-chamber of puppets patting you on the head?” 🤔🤭

          For some unknown reason Mel ignored every single one of those suggestions.

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    2. SCOTTIE:

      I may have mentioned before that the British systems of governing are founded on a triumvirate of church/monarch/state.

      Three legs of a tripod—each relies on the other; and laws are framed to preserve the powers of the triumvirate.

      But (some would say,) but~

      ~but the Government IS the people — you know, democracy and all that good stuff as defined by Lincoln?

      Nutshell answer: no.

      Sooner or later the average person may wake up to the fact that our ‘Democracy’ is nothing more than “Government of the People, by the Party, for the Party” and that’s the end of it.

      To get religion out of a system like that will require armed force and a great deal of unpleasantness, so I guess we’re all stuck with it.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Hello Argus. I think for the US a ground swell of progressive democrat party members will change things in a way that more people will vote and the system will change. That is my hope. Hugs

        Liked by 3 people

        1. Sadly Scottie, all I can offer is my hope that you are right.
          But the folks who always pervert the systems to their own ends will always win—short of utter desperation and forlorn armed force.

          After which …
          … after a brief Golden hiatus it will be back to Square One.

          The answer has to be “Government of the people, by-and-for the People” and although clever folks use that slogan as a tool it will always (you may quote this as ‘Argie’s Law’: it will ALWAYS) devolve to self-interest on the part of the cunning few rather than self-interest on the part of the ‘mass of men’.

          Thoreau summed it up nicely with his “…the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation”.

          It is the leaders amongst those quietly desperate that we all need fear, no? And that inevitable given law of nature, to the effect that history tends to repeat itself. Old feet in new shoes; but they reliably stink (but my paws are clean …)

          Liked by 1 person

          1. @ Argus. Damn, the last third of this current rum bottle just wont be enough. Oh well, lucky I think ahead and have the home bar well stocked with extra supplies. Hugs

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          2. @ Argus. I will look it up. I have to be careful of my blood sugar so I use clear rum. I loved Bourbon but it had too much sugar, so to the clear rum I went. Hugs

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          3. Oops, rum being made from sugar … vodka is good, and I used to dog paddle across the pool one-handed with my G & T held aloft with the other … acquired taste, though (had to work at it).

            Liked by 1 person

          4. I left a steady stream of regurgitated Pussers rum along the main street on a regular basis in Gibraltar many years ago.

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  1. Nicely said, Ark. The ‘vangies want to have it both ways: claim persecution, and rail at godless secularism; but insist that Christianity is on the up and up. And still it keeps diversifying– “speciating”– into piddling variants, and factional disagreements over scriptural fidelity.

    My wish is to see most of these variations on a hopeless theme go the way of, say, Zoroastrianism. They’re still around, in little communities outside of Iran, but probably so marginal as to be barely noticeable, and with no real impact on the larger culture. As you observed, religious minorities like that are often only tolerated under the more benign pluralism of secular democracies.

    Liked by 3 people

  2. sha-ZAAM!!! Here ya go Ben. 😉 😛

    No, seriously. Now for my real comment! hehehe

    I’d like to say a bit about the religious levels of the USA in light of your mostly accurate statement, particularly in the Deep South of the former Confederacy.

    While the USA remains somewhat of an anomaly, being one of the most religious nations on the planet…

    The Religious Landscape Study by the not-for-profit, non-partisan, non-advocacy Pew Research Center in Washington D.C., and ranked overall as “Least Biased and Very High for factual reporting due to excellent sourcing” by an independent firm MBFC News. On this topic of journalistic neutrality, I also strongly recommend WashingtonPost.com Fact-checker, Politifact.com, FactCheck.org, and Snopes.com which nails unfounded rumors. Now, about the religiosity of Americans.

    According to the RLS by Pew Research 70.6% of Americans publicly claim to be Christian — with 7-8 subgroups. Non-Christian faiths consist of 5.9% of the population while 22.8% are Unaffiliated to any religious beliefs.

    In more specific geographic metro areas like my hometown metroplex of Dallas/Ft. Worth, 78% publicly claim claim Christianity, 4% as Non-Christian faiths, and 18% Unaffiliated/No religious ties. This surprised me at first, but then as I read more, thought about it further, and reflected on my 37+ years of living in DFW and being quite social over the entire metroplex, but primarily in Dallas, what most people claim in public and typically want to put their “best foot forward” out in public, have likeable attractive images/impressions to the public and at jobs (everybody does it to degrees)… I know the majority of the time or to a large extent, people behave differently at home or in their element/comfort-zone.

    Having been in my Alternative Lifestyles in DFW (and in two metroplexes in the Deep South) for 28-years and counting, those percentages for Dallas/Ft. Worth are not precise. Hahahahaha! There is a… “margin of error” that needs to be included; and NOT a positive margin. Dallas has a large, growing, and thriving Alt Lifestyles community! 😈

    Doug, your father is spot on:

    it’s a phase they have to go through.

    So as far as those RLS Pew Research “percentages” for DFW, take ’em with lots of salt and fuzzyness.

    “In a secular democracy?” HELL YES, but I’d be a bit more specific: In a secular Constitutional democracy.

    For this fine post Ark? AMEN my heathen brotha!!! LOL

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Ark, you’ll find this data corroborating the general decline in traditional theistic/Abrahamic beliefs, but specific to white evangelicals in the U.S.

      From a highly reputable “Least Biased” source, “Additional Evidence of White Evangelical Protestant Decline” by Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI) in Sept. 2017. It states:

      …we documented a six point drop in white evangelical identity (from 23% in 2006 according to Pew Research Center to 17% in 2016 in PRRI’s most recent report). While six percentage points in ten years is not an avalanche, it is significant both statistically and culturally.

      There are at least three major independent pieces of evidence corroborating recent PRRI findings about white evangelical Protestant decline.

      The rest of the report is telling. The table on “A General Shift in Religious Identity” shows a remarkable shift/decline in the 18 – 29 age group of Americans to “Unaffiliated.” These generational patterns support the current trend lines, and over time will almost certainly translate into continued white evangelical Protestant decline as a proportion of the population.

      Fyi, for the mistaken flocks of superstition. 😉

      Source: https://www.prri.org/spotlight/additional-evidence-white-evangelical-protestant-decline/

      Liked by 2 people

    2. I was just thinking, there has to be a craterous gap between ‘true” christians and those who profess merely because they don’t dare to say otherwise. There have always been atheists out there, but the society we were born into more or less insisted that you took your father’s name, his family religion, and we’ll hear no more about THAT, young man.
      If you had no faith, you kept still about it, if you wanted to work, to join a club, a team, or a political arena. There has always been a large pool of non-believers out there that still feel it’s safer to pretend. Especially in the south, where it’s everyone’s business what church you go to. Here in New England, not so much.

      I tend to disbelieve those polls anyway, since they are dealing with people, who are a varying commodity these days…

      Liked by 1 person

        1. Makes perfect sense Ark. Why do we fly on multi-ton aircraft around the continent or world when we know from 500,000 years of evolution, humans were NOT designed to fly!!!??? 😉

          Btw, I’m about to give Judy (above) my reply with 2 hyper-links that I know she’ll find intriguing. Perhaps you and others too. Would you mind Approving them if they go into your Spam folder please? 🙂

          Liked by 1 person

      1. Judy, in one of my older blog-posts I wrote:

        Studies done from 2007 through 2011 in 40 countries around the world, including the United States show that the rational choice to adhere to a religion is heavily self-centered, not theological, not necessarily empirical, or not even miraculous, but instead based on the question, What will the decision cost ME?

        The link for the 2007 study:
        https://www.nber.org/papers/w13689.pdf?new_window=1

        Link for the 2011 study:
        http://www.pewforum.org/2009/04/27/faith-in-flux/

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  3. “If Christianity truly was the right direction for civilization to take then after 2000 years it is not unreasonable to expect its adherents to at least have sorted out which is the right form of Christianity?”

    This is something that still baffles me. If Christians are right, as they claim, then they should all agree on all Christian matters. If they do not (and they don’t) then how do they expect anyone else to get on board? If the source is true and accurate, then all should see that and should be doing, saying, and worshipping the same things. But they don’t, do they?The Bible says that God is not a god of confusion. Well, with all of the confusion, I would have to say that either the Bible is not true, God is not real…or both. I’m going to have to say both. Christians are more than welcome to show me otherwise and prove me wrong, but I’m not holding my breath.

    Liked by 6 people

    1. Ben,

      I wonder, does the well-supported scientific neurological-psychological studies of Herd-mentality — since we Homo sapiens are indeed bipedal primates & firmly part of the animal kingdom for well over 200,000 years — within small communities and then gradually expanding outward (in varying degrees) have something to do with the propagating of false realities of group perception? IOW, does the “feeling” of being accepted in a group mean MORE to a person than the actual operations of subatomic reality to the macro-Cosmic reality?

      Liked by 3 people

      1. I can’t remember the exact quote and who said it but I heard it said that the act of belief is more important to people of faith than it actually being true. The feeling that they are right and there is more than just this life is what keeps people going and it doesn’t matter if any of it is true. People tend to stick their fingers in their ears and drown out the voice of reason. For many, living in the matrix is preferable to living in a world that isn’t what they once believed it to be.

        I think that you may be right about herd mentality. Herd mentality to me, is like peer pressure. Wanting to do something (whether you agree with it or not) in order to not stand out and to feel accepted. Peer pressure is observable and most of us have experienced it at some level. What others are doing becomes priority over what we may believe because we want to fit in with the group. I don’t have all of the answers, but I do enjoy the search for the answers which is something I didn’t always do. As a believer, much (most?) of what I believed was believed on faith and not based on any actual evidence.

        Liked by 4 people

        1. Agreed. My father, being a well-educated mechanical engineer and alum of UT Austin was as best I could determine was Agnostic with humanist tendencies. He raised me along the same lines, but certainly to not be afraid to march to a different beat, even if heckled by the crowd. It served me very well in my collegiate, pro, and semi-pro soccer career.

          However, in other areas of life (job, marriage, social-norms) it has been difficult, sometimes exhausting with bouts of loneliness/isolation. So I guess there are pros and cons, huh? My self-esteem and ego are… well, some would argue this with me (Hah!), but healthy and steady. Good self-love and a strong sense of true-to-myself, and hence true/forthcoming to others, but I can’t deny the fact that I’ve been unmarried/single most of my life and sometimes in job-evaluations would receive grades/descriptions of “difficult to follow established routines and protocols.” Pfffftt, imagine that. 😒 What do they know! LOL

          I think in the end we do need our tribe, our peeps, like-minded Free-thinking Humanists and sexual deviants/perverts in my case. 😛

          Liked by 2 people

          1. The feeling of being alone can lead to depression and self harm. The feeling of community is helpful and beneficial to both animals and people alike. I think that is why churches are as popular as they are. People go to feel like they are part of something, even if that something isn’t true or believable. I think people are creatures of habit and once some people start going to church and become part of a social group, they feel the need to continue. Some people are just being polite also, not wanting to hurt the feelings of others by their actions/inactions.

            As far as you being a sexual deviant/pervert…well, that’s where my mind went when you mentioned “good self love” 🙂

            Liked by 4 people

      1. If a god wanted us to know everything by having it recorded in a book, then that book would be easy to understand, without confusion and would have actual answers that relate to the reality of our existence. It would contain scientific observations without errors (as we see time and time again in the Bible) and it would not be able to be refuted in any way. In other words, if God wanted everything written down in a book for us to live our lives by, he’d burn the Bible and actually write a believable book.

        Liked by 5 people

          1. If a god existed, I’m sure he could find far more talented writers than me to write it. Or….maybe he could do it himself instead of pawning it off on someone else. Now there’s an idea. God actually doing something.

            Liked by 2 people

      2. Wouldn’t an all-knowing God have realized ahead the problem with leaving it to cloddish, literal-minded apologists to get his message across, and taken steps to avoid that? How can you believe in, let alone respect, any god so dim-witted?

        The fact that apologists exist tends to cancel out the evidence for the very god they’re so busy trying to persuade us of.

        Unless God is a sadistic bastard who gets a tickle out of tormenting us with the likes of Branyan and Wild Man Mel.

        Liked by 5 people

        1. Yeah totally agree with your statement on apologists. I mean, come on, we don’t have apologetics for other fields of knowledge. No one needs to come up with philosophical arguments for the existence of genetics or natural selection.

          But yes he is a sadistic God, now that’s a thought…

          Liked by 3 people

          1. God’s not invisible, he’s just a little…shy, is all. He wants to “speak” to us so badly; tell us how much he loves us. But he gets all tongue-tied. Embarrassed. It’s not easy to say: “I love you” to strangers. It can come off a tad-creepy, to say the least.

            He once wrote a book. Well, dictated it, really. Full of important, wise stuff. Like, how he brought those Israelites up out of Egypt (okay, he used a little license there, just for the story’s sake) How they were an ungrateful, stiff-necked bunch of sods, but he still loved them ‘cos they were his people You know, essential stuff that everyone needs to know. But lest anyone think he was a big ol’ softie, he laid down a bunch ‘a rules an’ that. More important stuff, like: don’t go worshipping other gods, ‘cos that makes me all jealous and angry, and you wouldn’t like me when I’m angry (He even threatened to turn green, and rip his shirt, just to make the point).

            He thought about leading with:”Thou shalt not rape the kids”, but thought, nah, too obvious. Who needs to be reminded not to do that?

            Feeling pretty chuffed with Himself, he called it a night, and left it to the ghostwriter scribes to put it all into some sort of shape.

            The book became a best-seller, but He couldn’t be arsed to go on a book-tour and promote it Himself. Let the publicists do that. Thus, a new industry was gifted to the world. We called it: Apologetics.

            Liked by 6 people

        2. put another way: if a god invented us, it seems it would behoove him to invent people who would universally accept him. No book, no ‘rules’, just built-in behavior patterns. And frankly that’s a bit creepy.

          Liked by 3 people

          1. Where did she mention choice? Read again what she wrote and try … really try … to comprehend the meaning of her words. If you still feel That would be illogical, if not impossible — then I can’t help you.

            Liked by 2 people

          2. Why should a creature claim its creator is ‘behooven’ to do anything? If God exists it’s not for us to determine how He should behave, it’s the other way around. I’ve already tried to explain to people here that if God DID show Himself in a way that eliminates any doubt we would be left with no choice other than to believe in Him. So He has to cloak himself in invisibility in order to give us choice in the matter. The atheist takes that choice for granted and turns his/her freedom back on the god they don’t believe in, expecting him to act as they see fit. But if God succumbed to their demands he would no longer be God, the atheist would.

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          3. if God DID show Himself in a way that eliminates any doubt we would be left with no choice other than to believe in Him.

            And why exactly would this be a problem for the atheist?

            Liked by 1 person

          4. You tell me! Why indeed does it matter to you? Why are atheists so vocal about a non-belief? An atheist should be indifferent, you know, like I’m indifferent to the flying spaghetti monster.

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          5. Don’t run from the question, now.

            He turns up and reveals Himself, and demonstrates, beyond doubt, his credentials, I would give him the nod and acknowledge Yahweh.

            I want to know exactly why you seem to consider this would be a problem for atheists.

            Liked by 1 person

          6. I am not making any demands.
            You posed the scenario about Yahweh revealing himself.
            Assuming his credentials were established beyond doubt, I am saying I would acknowledge him.
            Now I want to know why you think that, I as an atheist would have a problem.
            Are you unable to answer the question truthfully or simply afraid?

            Liked by 1 person

          7. OK … in kindergarten words …

            God creates people. God instills within them (makes it a part of their human nature) the desire/natural attribute/instinct to universally know and accept him. Period.

            There is no “choice” involved. It’s simply a natural attribute that this “god” (a supernatural being, not limited to the “Christian” god) places within every human spirit/soul/body.

            Now, take the next step with me … since this “God” would be part of each and every human being, then there would be no atheists. Right?

            C’mon CD. Use your imagination.

            Liked by 4 people

          8. God creates people. God instills within them (makes it a part of their human nature) the desire/natural attribute/instinct to universally know and accept him. … It’s simply a natural attribute that this “god” … places within every human spirit/soul/body.

            Is this something you believe or you were brought up to believe, or is it something you think God should have done when He created us? If you believe it, I suggest you’re wrong, because it’s patently not true.

            I merely jumped into this to dispute judy54’s claim that the god she doesn’t believe in should be ‘behooven’ to its creation.

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          9. It has nothing to do with “belief.” I was just attempting to explain judy’s comment because it was quite obvious you missed the point. And quite frankly, I think you’re still missing it.

            This brief conversation with you has never been an argument or a discussion on what I believe or what you believe or what judy believes. It was just a “what if …”

            You take life far too seriously. Probably has something to do with your religious beliefs …

            Liked by 4 people

    2. “The Bible says that God is not a god of confusion. Well, with all of the confusion, I would have to say that either the Bible is not true, God is not real…or both.

      I was reminded of something Neil Carter wrote in his recent post:

      “Even the expectation that the presence of the Holy Spirit is supposed to make a difference in the life and character of Christians is at once normative and also completely out of line because, come on…you can’t judge God by the actions of his people, right?

      In case you don’t recognize this rhetorical sleight of hand, by the way, it’s called gaslighting—telling you fundamentally contradictory things and then blaming you for the confusion it causes, as if the inconsistency owes more to a lack of character in you than it does to the system of belief itself.

      When I was questioning (while still a Christian) due to so much confusion, I got gaslighted a lot.

      He goes on to say:

      “What’s more, I’ve lost count now of how many people have told me that “everybody goes through a phase like you’re going through,” assuring me that the best way to get past it is to just learn to trust that somehow it all works out whether we understand it or not. What this tells me is that virtually everyone who makes it into old age still holding on to the faith of their youth had to decide at one point or another to let go of their questions and just, well…give them up.

      The irony is that they feel that I’m the one who gave up. From their point of view, I made a deliberate choice to reject God and go my own way, putting myself above God as if I know better than he does what’s what. It wasn’t until recently that I finally figured out why they keep thinking this…

      It’s because they did make a choice. They chose to stuff the questions down, resolving to surrender their need to understand why things never really add up.

      Liked by 7 people

      1. Matt Dillahunty once said, “The people who are most diligent about studying their religion and most interested in trying to demonstrate to others that this is true and it’s needed, are the ones who tend to fall out because of critical examination of the Bible.”

        This was true of me. I made a sincere, concerted effort to get close to God, to find out the truth and to discern what path he wanted me to take. I read the Bible constantly. My prayers were for guidance, not for things. My prayers were for God to draw near to me, not for earthly things. I studied and prayed and then I studied and prayed some more. I did all I could in accordance with “God’s will.” Every time (every single time) I was answered with silence. If God can ignore prayers like mine, then he’s not the god I was taught was real. The god I was taught to believe in was the god of the Bible who would answer anyone who came to him with reverence and sincerity. Those whose intentions were pure and their desires were for heavenly things. I pleaded to that god and came up empty. Of course, this was the result of some “secret sin” in my life that created a barrier between God and myself. That’s what I was told by the church. Guess what? If sin was the barrier causing God to ignore me, then no one would have any relationship with God because “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”

        I chose not to ignore the doubts. I chose to not stop asking questions and I chose to always search for the truth. The search for truth led me in a far different direction than what I had hoped for. It led me away from God, not towards God. Religion only makes sense if you ignore the doubts, stop asking questions and you fall in line with those in charge, believing that they know the truth about God that you yourself are incapable of knowing. Freethinking only leads you away. That’s my view anyway.

        Liked by 7 people

        1. That was true for me as well Ben. As I may have shared with you before, for me it all started with “the One And Only Son of God who performed unprecedented miracles to thousands of people in gargantuan crowds AND was prophesied to do all this stuff before birth and began all of it prenatally and post-natally from Day 1“!!!! But… ignore this part PT…

          He completely disappeared with all this Earth-shattering, can’t-go-unnoticed-anywhere, unprecedented events, acts, and divine persona for 17-years!!! 😮

          No. No, no, FRACKIN’ NO!!! If he was truly who the New Testament says he was before birth and right after, then that is not possible! Period! Mmmmm, my walk to freedom and liberation from bondage began!!! Praise the stars and galaxies, AMEN Beelzebub and all the goddesses! 🤩

          Liked by 3 people

        2. “I made a sincere, concerted effort to get close to God, to find out the truth and to discern what path he wanted me to take.”*

          Ditto to all that you wrote, Ben. I sometimes cringe when I think about how devout I once was, but no one can ever accuse me of not going the distance. I wasn’t a half-ass Christian, and yes, the search for truth, and to draw closer to god led me in a far different direction than what I was expecting.

          Liked by 5 people

    3. The internal cockfights between this sect and that sect in Christianity reminds me of the Calico cat and the Gingham dog, and at the end the only thing left is scraps.

      I think Christianity has worn itself out and eventually something else will come along to take it’s place. The life span, as Will Durant stated, of any major religion/society is approximately 2000 years. Our art and culture, music and society has been declining for several hundred years, slowly, inexorably. I won’t be around to see it, but I’ve been around long enough to see the beginnings of it and that will hold me, tyvm.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. If Christianity does eventually dwindle to a point of insignificance, people will forget about it and look for other belief systems because they’ll be desperate for a structured, objective morality, rather than the subjectivity of atheism, and I reckon Islam will be the first contender. That said, the stigma currently attached to Biblical Christianity in the West might also be forgotten, so that too might see a massive revival. It all depends how quickly the prosperity of the West declines, because prosperity brings apathy and apathy leads to poverty and that is often followed by unrest. What is almost certain is that most people are unable to imagine human life without some kind of external ‘out there somewhere’ presence, and particularly when their loved ones die.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. they’ll be desperate for a structured, objective morality, rather than the subjectivity of atheism,

          I am already desperate to find a system to help with my morality.
          At the moment, being an atheist, I am hanging on by the skin of my teeth and any time now I might fly off the handle and go on a raping and pillaging rampage.
          I hope your god comes to save me soon….

          Liked by 2 people

          1. Should we alert the police that our immediate neighbours may be in danger?

            My neighbour , Ben, has a nifty satellite dish that my shifting spanner would have off the wall in a jiffy. And if I have the energy afterwards his wife is a bit of all right!

            Om …. stay calm …. think Jesus thoughts Ark.

            Liked by 3 people

          2. This talk is reminding me, it’s time to replenish my supply of infant Christian flesh fer cookin’! Gotta go out huntin’ tonight! Yummy! Like my pops always said, “What’s great fer us atheists, son, is da gar’darn meals! Ya’ kin eats whatever ya wants when ya ain’t gots no morals!” $Amen$ to that, eh!

            Like

        2. The thing is though, the ‘objective morals’ that you see in religious texts were ultimately written up by somebody, and as to how they decided what said good morals were, it would’ve been a bit subjective no? I get it, people do like to follow a ‘recipe book’ for living their lives. But the thing is, those said recipes don’t work, regardless of what they’ve been told otherwise – that’s why many people are leaving religion. Some will look for other recipes to follow (different religions). Atheists will come up with their own recipes, and strive to learn from others (and their own experiences) which recipes will actually work, instead of just blindly following.

          Liked by 2 people

          1. Atheists will come up with their own recipes, and strive to learn from others (and their own experiences) which recipes will actually work, instead of just blindly following.

            Should all atheists do that? Surely there will be some atheists who will have to ‘blindly follow’ as learning from each other’s experiences takes a lifetime, which means only the old, wise ones ought to write the rules, but then the younger ones will think they know better. How can you all agree between yourselves when you’re all very different people? Please quote some evidence to suggest you’re right.

            Like

          2. Well, we don’t always agree on everything. Atheists are a very loose group of individuals after all, and we certainly don’t always get everything right. But, the crucial thing here is, many of us (I won’t speak for all), seek to learn from experiences and to use rational thinking as a guide. Our recipes are continually striving to improve, unlike those from religion which stay the same, despite been shown to often be wrong. But that’s the magic, there is no one ‘right way’, anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong in my book.

            Liked by 2 people

  4. I’ve been saying this for years. Religion is declining in the US as well, and the decline has accelerated in the last 20 years with the rise of “New Atheism”. This is evident from rates of church attendance, numbers of people who self-identify as non-religious, and changing attitudes on things like homosexuality and extra-marital sex. The US has long been much more religious than Europe, so it has further to go, but it’s moving in the same direction.

    The militancy and political activism of the Christian Right in the US, like the militancy of extremist Muslim groups in the Middle East, is fueled by the rage and alarm of people who know they’re losing the culture wars. They can elect politicians to pass laws that enforce their taboos and harass people they don’t like (especially in the more backward parts of the country), and those laws will do genuine harm, but they can’t stop the inexorable evolution of society away from the way they think it should be.

    Even most of the business world recognizes this. It was mostly boycotts and threats to cancel expansion that forced states like Indiana, North Carolina, and Georgia to back down from anti-gay laws they’d passed over the last few years. Corporations know their markets and they know who they need to avoid offending. The religious-nut demographic, no matter how much political power it has, is steadily shrinking and doomed to decline to insignificance.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Yes indeed, Maka; around here they’re called Home Baptists. No smiles, no music, no TV, no dancing. You read improving works and knit. And there will be Bible Study after dinner, to follow up what the minister preached about in church. (They make the Catholics look like Hedonists)

      Like

  5. If God really decided to show Himself in all His glory we would be instantly dead … or, if spared, we’d be left without the options to believe or disbelieve. Therefore whatever He tells us of Himself must be cloaked until the final moment. We have choices now, but only while we’re still capable of choosing. Jesus knew all about it long before it happened as illustrated perfectly by His parable of the sower in Luke 8:5-15. I see no reason to apply that parable on a merely individual level because it’s just as relevant on a social scale.

    Please also note that apologists’ claims about the growth of the Christian Church are only made in response to the claim that Christianity is declining worldwide. Studies can provide vast numbers of psychological reasons for the growth and decline of various belief systems but Christendom has no need to boast about its volume when it has Almighty God as its Head. It’s also well aware that its numbers will never reach the point of critical mass, where it gains momentum through an overwhelming quantity of believers. That said, America has come close, but probably not quite got there.

    Like

    1. “If God really decided to show Himself in all His glory we would be instantly dead”

      Tell me a good reason why your God would project instant death if you saw him, would that not be a dammed good excuse to actually never turn up?

      “Christendom has no need to boast about its volume when it has Almighty God as its Head.”

      That would be right, the BS is turning heaps of people away and his representative priests have really been a boost for the devil.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. @Cumbria:
      “If God really decided to show Himself in all His glory we would be instantly dead … or, if spared, we’d be left without the options to believe or disbelieve. Therefore whatever He tells us of Himself must be cloaked until the final moment. We have choices now, but only while we’re still capable of choosing.

      this is the biggest maypole of reasoning I have ever seen…how do you nice people come UP with this stuff? Trying to figure out what the middle ground between ‘believe or disbelieve” might be, Limbo, maybe? We stand firmly on solid air with our thumbs in our mouths, waiting for…?

      Like

  6. @SlumberingBedwetter

    You don’t know the first thing about your god. You’ve never had any empirical experience of this god. Nobody has. Any “mystical” encounters you may claim you’ve had are entirely your own, and have no more validity than the similar claims of chemically-enhanced drug-users or schizophrenics. Referring to the Bible is of no avail, because the authors of those stories knew nothing of their god, either.

    Stop taking refuge in obscurantism and scare-mongering. It merely makes you look like a crank.

    Liked by 3 people

      1. OK, left this. Let’s see how long it takes to see the light of day:

        We can post quotes all day long of Hitler proclaiming his Christian belief, there are literally hundreds spread across the years, but a better way exists to answer the question without any conjecture at all: How did other Christians consider Hitler?

        On that, we have a wealth of information, and it seems that not only did Hitler consider himself a very, very good Christian, but so too did church leadership. For example, Father Senn, a Catholic priest, writing in a Catholic publication, May 15, 1934:

        [Adolf Hitler is] the tool of God

        Kirchenrat Julius Leutheuser, addressing German Christians in Saalfeld, August 30, 1933:

        The word “German” is God’s Word! Whosoever understands this is released from all theological conflicts. This is German: return home to Germany and leave behind egoism and your feelings of abandonment. …Christ has come to us through the person of Adolf Hitler. …Hitler has taken root in us; through his strength, through his honesty, his faith and his idealism we have found our way to paradise.

        We also have clear statements of support from Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, the Catholic Hierarchy of Austria, and Bishop Hans Meiser of the Bavarian Evangelical-Lutheran Church.

        Liked by 3 people

          1. Here is my next comment, following his handwave…

            I’m afraid you’re mistaken, or deliberately lying, which I truly hope is not the case.

            I can produce these quotes (with references of publication/date) of Hitler professing his Christian faith, his belief in God, in him acting according to God’s will, on thanking God, commenting on God’s grace, on fulfilling God’s mission, on sin against God, of his confidence in God, on capitalism and God, on going where god wills, on when we appear before God, on faith and morality, on faith-based schools, on fighting the Atheistic movement, on the requirement of faith, on the significance of Christian love, on Positive Christianity, on missionary work, and many other subjects.

            Just say the word and I’d be happy to paste them all for you to read.

            I see, though, that you have not addressed the actual content of my comment.

            Yes, Hitler thought himself a very good Christian, but more important to establishing his actual faith we should look to how others (especially church leaders) considered him as a Christian.

            Here are a few more statements from Cardinals and Bishops:

            Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: May God Preserve Adolf Hitler

            “What the old parliament and parties did not accomplish in sixty years, your statesmanlike foresight has achieved in six months. For Germany’s prestige in East and West and before the whole world this handshake with the Papacy, the greatest moral power in the history of the world, is a feat of immeasurable blessing. …May God preserve the Reich Chancellor for our people.”
            – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, praising Adolf Hitler for the Concordat, July 24, 1933

            German Christian: Hitler Has Reawakened the Church

            “Why don’t our rulers declare themselves for the Volkskirche, which is fighting for a living Christianity? With our great leader Adolf Hitler, our previously dead church also experienced the reawakening of a vital spirit. …[Julius] Streicher, the Franconian leader, said in a speech: ‘The murder of Golgotha is written on the foreheads of the Jews.’ Yes – and that is why there is a curse on that people. Jesus, however, died for us and so we should believe in him and accept him.”
            – German Christian woman, letter to Germany’s Foreign Minister, August 27, 1935

            Fulda German Bishops’ Conference: May God Help the Führer Succeed

            [Germany must be made militarily stronger to ensure that not only would Europe be] cleansed from Bolshevism, but the entire rescued civilized world will be able to be thankful to us. …The task which this imposes upon our people and Fatherland follows as a matter of course. May our Führer, with God’s help, succeed in completing this terribly difficult undertaking with unshakable determination and faithful participating of allVolksgenossen.
            – Fulda German Bishops’ Conference, Pastoral Letter, August 19, 1936

            Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Hitler Lives in Faith in God

            “The Führer commands the diplomatic and social forms better than a born sovereign. …Without a doubt the chancellor lives in faith in God. He recognizes Christianity as the foundation of Western culture. …Not as clear is his conception of the Catholic Church as a God-established institution.” As a result of this report, the conference votes to “once again affirm our loyal and positive attitude, demanded by the fourth commandment, toward today’s form of government and the Führer.” They assure the Führer they will provide him “all available moral resources his world-historical struggle aimed at repelling Bolshevism.”
            – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, meeting of Bavarian bishops on his meeting with Adolf Hitler, December 13, 1936

            Cardinal Theodor Innitzer: Pray to God in Thanks for Hitler and the Nazis

            [Austrian Catholics should greet Adolf Hitler and the Nazis by] praying to the Lord God in thanks for the bloodless course of this great political change and to ask for a happy future for Austria. Of course, all orders from the authorities will be happily and willingly obeyed.
            – Cardinal Theodor Innitzer, Archbishop of Vienna, March 12, 1938

            Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Adolf Hitler is a Man of Peace

            “[Adolf Hitler is a] man of peace. …The great deed of safeguarding peace…moves the German episcopate acting in the name of the Catholics of all the German dioceses…to extend congratulations and thanks and to order a festive ringing of bells on Sunday.” Read in all Berlin pulpits: “God has heard the prayer of all Christendom for peace. By His grace and the tireless efforts of the responsible statesmen the terrible affliction of a war has been averted… [W]e desire now with a prayer and a Te deum to praise God for His goodness in that He has preserved peace for us…[and] assured the return of our Sudeten kinsmen to the German Reich.”
            – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, commemorating Germany occupying Sudentenland, October 2, 1938

            Easter Sunday Blessing: Nazi Party Rules Germany in God’s Name

            A state that once again rules in God’s name can count not only on our applause but also on enthusiastic and active cooperation from the church. With joy and thanks we see how this new state rejects blasphemy, attacks immorality, promotes discipline and order with a firm hand, demands awe before God, works to keep marriage sacred and our youth spiritually instructed, brings honor back to fathers of families, ensures that love of people and fatherland is no longer mocked, but burns in a thousand hearts. …We can only plead with our fellow worshipers to do an they can to help these new productive forces in our land reach a complete and unimpeded victory.
            – Easter Sunday Blessing from Protestant Pastors in Bavaria, April 16, 1933

            And if you require any further secondary sources, then you need only review US papers at the time. For example:
            The New York Times Story: “Atheist Hall Converted.”

            “In Freethinkers Hall, which before the Nazi resurgence was the national headquarters of the German Freethinkers League, the Berlin Protestant church authorities have opened a bureau for advice to the public in church matters. Its chief object is to win back former churchgoers and assist those who have not previously belonged to any religious congregation in obtaining church membership. The German Freethinkers League, which was swept away by the national revolution, was the largest of such organizations in Germany. It had about 500,000 members…”
            – The New York Times, May 14, 1933, page 2, on Hitler’s outlawing atheistic and freethinking groups in the Spring of 1933, after the Enabling Act authorizing Hitler to rule by decree

            Associated Press Story: “Campaign against ‘Godless Movement'”

            “A campaign against the ‘godless movement’ and an appeal for Catholic support were launched by Chancellor Adolf Hitler’s forces.”
            – Associated Press story, February 23, 1933

            Liked by 2 people

        1. Pope Pius XII was remarkably silent during WWII, as to Hitler. I suspect a lot of that silence from Catholic clergy stemmed from the fact that Hitler was targeting Jews. Not Catholics. Makes me wonder at the outrage, if Catholics had been singled out.

          The really scary thing was, most of his ideas for racial purity came from studies done in this country in the early 1900s. I’ve seen documents that were sent out to families to fill out, and they were frighteningly thorough. We were no prize in the racial purity corner, either, sadly.

          Liked by 2 people

          1. His most recent reply to you is typical of the D/K arrogance of the man.
            Using his method of judgment I would be surprised if there is a single high profile individual from the pages of Christian History that we could attach the label ”Christian”, over and above a belief in the character Jesus of Nazareth, and I doubt any could be regarded as ”Christ-like” , as one would generally understand the term.
            Certainly, if the character were real, the likes of Robertson would receive a swift backhand for claiming to be a representative of his … I’m sorry … His ”faith”.

            Liked by 1 person

          2. If we take as a given that Dear Old Adolf was several sarmies short of a picnic this does not diminish in any way that he thought of himself as doing his god’s work.

            If Robertson is trying to suggest that Hitler was not a Christian what can we say about Luther, Torquemada, every child raping Priest, those that liquidated the Cathars, the genocide of the the native Americans and the South American Indians?

            Was dropping the A bomb on Japan the Christian thing to do. let alone a Christ-like action?

            Liked by 3 people

          3. It’s just such a silly thing. Should we discuss other diabolical European Christians such as:

            Benito Mussolini
            Franco
            Napoleon
            Oliver Cromwell
            Maximilien Robespierre
            Miguel Primo de Rivera
            Vlad III
            Kaiser Wilhelm II
            Nicholas II
            Leopold II
            Romuald Traugutt
            Slobodan Milošević
            José Mendes Cabeçadas
            Lord John Russell

            Liked by 2 people

          4. I reckon it would fair to say he was not ”Christ like” or a true reflection of what Christians are expected to be, but then, I suspect that, those who are (might be) never make the headlines.

            Liked by 1 person

          5. Just read the (updated ) thread.
            *Smile* He’s a peach, isn’t he?

            I am surprised he hasn’t whipped it out and posted his measurements!

            I just loved the assumption you hadn’t read Mein Kampf and the way he nagged you over it. All that was missing was the Nyah, Nyah, Nayh. And when you told him you had read it he ignored it and moved on to the next thing – ”Name a historian …”
            This is typical behaviour of a bigot.

            He demonstrated a similar Dazed and Confused reaction to being pulled up by almost every reader for his assertion he had ”beaten” Matt Dillahunty in their first debate.

            I wonder if he ever allows his wife to wash his Dunning-Kruger vest?

            Liked by 2 people

          6. The bastard was/is editing my comments. That’s just beyond pathetic. I think I have 3 comments waiting, but this is a bit he decided his readers shouldn’t see:

            Honestly, why are you persisting with this silly subject? So Hitler was a Christian. To-date, I’ve never seen an atheist use Hitler as a case against Christian beliefs. And believe me, if that was an interesting angle then you’d see essays not only on Hitler but other diabolical European Christians such as:

            Benito Mussolini
            Franco
            Napoleon
            Oliver Cromwell
            Maximilien Robespierre
            Miguel Primo de Rivera
            Vlad III
            Kaiser Wilhelm II
            Nicholas II
            Leopold II
            Romuald Traugutt
            Slobodan Milošević
            José Mendes Cabeçadas
            Lord John Russell

            To name just a few.

            We could also go through the many African, Central and South American Christian dictators too, like Simón Bolívar, Hugo Chavez, Pinochet, Agustín de Iturbide, Antonio López de Santa Anna, Porfirio Díaz, Rafael Carrera, Efrain Rios Montt, Maximiliano Hernández Martínez, Jorge Ubico, Daniel Ortega, Manuel Noriega, José Gaspar Rodríguez de Francia y Velasco, Carlos Ibáñez del Campo, Getúlio Vargas, Juan Vicente Gómez…

            You see where I’m heading with this, don’t you?

            Just drop it. It’s a silly subject, it doesn’t interest atheists, and it just leaves you, the apologist, looking moronic.

            Liked by 3 people

      2. @ Ark. When is a Christian not a Christian, when they embarrass the main stream Christians. Look as far as A. Hitler is concern if it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, calls it self a duck, and asks other ducks to support it, it damn well is a flocking duck. This Wee Flea guy saying well he was not really a true Christian by the way he acted doesn’t count for much as every Christian sect thinks the other Christian sects are bullshit not Christians. My view if a person tells me who they are through actions I believe them the first time. If they show me they are an asshole, I do not wait around to see who they vote for Pope before agreeing they are yes an asshole.
        Hugs ( my sincere apologies to your granny for swearing. ) Hugs

        Liked by 4 people

        1. Absolutely Scottie. Assholes are assholes regardless of their beliefs. If you want an example of an asshole, you can come visit my post. ColorStorm has made an appearance today. He’s not just rude and unbecoming of Jesus, he’s making absolutely ridiculous claims (If you can believe that) I haven’t conversed with him before and I am not sure I could do it again without taking a tranquilizer first. His assertions are both arrogant and absurd. In other words, he is the perfect representative of religion. 🙂

          https://wordpress.com/read/feeds/79260683/posts/2155307494

          Liked by 4 people

          1. @hello Ben. Thank you and I will go check out the linked post. I have had many interactions with ColorStorm. I find him to be a Poe. He and I have had a few go rounds, the last ended with him just not answering. I do not think he is a bad person, I just think he is a Poe. Hugs

            Liked by 1 person

          2. I’ve never had ‘his graces’ appear on my blog before, lucky you! The only dialogue I had with him was asking him some questions about the Bible and he resorted to attacking me instead of answering. Heh.

            Liked by 1 person

        2. Agreed.
          They will cite the couple of thousands of Priests incarcerated in Dachau as evidence, that he and the Nazis wee not Christian, but turn a blind eye to Torquemada and his buddies for example, and all the atrocities committed by Christians in the Americas – North and South.

          Straw men all over the place!

          Liked by 1 person

  7. Here’s the truth, people: “…now that a Book confirming their own has come to them from God, they deny it…they reply: ‘We believe in what was revealed to us.’ But they deny what has since been revealed, although it is truth…Say: ‘Whoever is an enemy of Gabriel’ (who has by God’s grace revealed to you [Muhammad] the Koran as a guide…confirming previous scriptures)..will surely find that God is the enemy of the unbelievers.’…And now that an apostle has come to them from God confirming their own Scriptures, some of those to whom the Scriptures were given cast off the Book of God behind their backs…The unbelievers among the People of the Book, and the pagans, resent that any blessings should have been sent down to you from your Lord. ” (Surah 2:88-, 98-, 103-)

    Islam is growing. It is God’s wish. This is truth. All else is a lie. Allahu Akbar

    Liked by 1 person

    1. @ inspiredbythedivine1. I have a truth … Want to hear it? I believe you exist! I have proof! I have read your writings. Not only that , the writings update at random intervals showing a living being! Even the Abrahamic gods cant do that. There fore you must exist and other religions should tremble before your …oh right Arks Granny reads this blog. Shoot. Hugs

      Liked by 1 person

  8. Oh to go back to the good old days of strict observance of the Sabbath when those on the Free State side of the Vaal would scuttle over to the Transvaal side of the Vaal with their fishing rods . . . It wasn’t actually illegal in the Transvaal.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. OK I just subjected my self to watching that Wee Flea guy twice in the referenced post. I also read the comments. I am a political junkie, and I thought politics was an inbred monkey fuck but these people have that all beat to a Mormons plural wedding hell. They don’t even keep continuity between their own comments. Hell give me a fifth of rum, a case of soda and I can give an argument better than that on almost any topic. Yet this to said to be the believers? Oh my the corp circle college kids have a lot to answer for about today’s religious beliefs. Really, decades of crop circles done by college kids had a world convinced of Alien visitors. Ever wonder what those old testament kids were up to to freak their parents out? Hugs

    Liked by 2 people

  10. In NZ we have “truth in advertising” hee hoo laws, to the effect that “Hee hoo alleges must prove” (but with accepted due allowances for a wee bit of puffery).

    Sadly, although religion is Big Business* … they can (and do) get away with murder.

    * With franchises and competing brands worldwide.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. So Ark, I think I can clear all of this religious confusion up. I have been shown the answers to all of life’s questions. A wise man of God visited my site today. I suppose you might even call him a prophet. It’s your old buddy CS. He came to me and revealed some truths that even you couldn’t argue with. The Bible is not only reliable, but it has “ZERO defects.” Not only that, you can use the Bible to prove the Bible! It’s true! Who knew? I mean, that seems illogical and absurd to me, but I’m not a true believer now am I? If anyone’s interested in this revelation from God, feel free to stop by:

    https://wordpress.com/read/feeds/79260683/posts/2155307494

    Liked by 5 people

      1. Oh I know. I’ve seen comments from him for awhile now. I’ve just now been “blessed” with his presence on my blog. I guess when you have him visit to spout nonsense, you know you’ve made it in the blogging world. 🙂

        Liked by 2 people

        1. @TheCovertAtheist

          ColonStem? As far as I can make out, he’s the real McCoy. Ark has gone toe-to-toe with him over the whole flat-earth bit. CS has devoted posts to the subject, so I guess he stands by it. ‘Course, he’s off the chart when it comes to science illiteracy, it goes without saying. He should really be sent over to Robertson’s blog so the two of them can thrash out what Scripture has to say about it, and quote verse to each other.

          They’re both on the deranged Fundy spectrum, with CS just a little further along.

          Then again, he might be a master parodist. Who can tell?

          Liked by 2 people

  12. Just had a thought—if the diehard Christian method is acceptable, then if I can nominate (say … my favourite, Ayn Rand?) as authority; then any rebuttals we take from ‘Atlas Shrugged’ or similar (she was quite prolific) is an equal authority?

    Would CS accept that as valid, do you think?

    Liked by 2 people

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