Eating other animals – part 2

I realise this is a controversial topic and is probably one of the main reasons many of my regular readers do not comment when I post on it.

That said, knowing there are perfectly acceptable, more viable and ecologically friendlier alternative sources of food, do you think the obvious suffering animals experience in any way justifies slaughtering and eating them simply to satisfy one’s taste buds?

Ark.

 

 


66 thoughts on “Eating other animals – part 2

  1. Just to throw this out … in the past (i haven’t researched it lately), vegetarian meals were considerably more expensive than those containing meat products. This could/might play a role in a person’s decision to become a non-meat-eater. As I said … just a thought. I’m NOT going to defend or rebuke either side.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. I’m NOT going to defend or rebuke either side.

      Okay, but do you think the obvious suffering animals experience in any way justifies slaughtering and eating them simply to satisfy one’s taste buds?

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      1. *smile* Just like discussions on religion, there’s always something “out there” to verify or deny one’s viewpoint.

        Ark, I don’t begrudge you your perspective … and can totally see your point regarding the situation with the animals. But I do hope you realize that in most cases, “converting” someone to vegetarianism isn’t all that different from what some folks do to “bring people to Jesus.” 🥬🥦🥕🧅🌽🙏

        Liked by 2 people

        1. Sorry, Nan, that is a load of hogwash, and if you are honest so do you.
          But I will take it as valid for now and ask once again …
          Do you think the obvious suffering animals experience in any way justifies slaughtering and eating them simply to satisfy one’s taste buds?

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          1. Why so hostile/defensive?
            It is a perfectly legitimate question which I am pretty sure you would have no issues answering if I asked the question about dogs and cats.

            So do you eat animals?

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        2. Also … from the referenced article: This isn’t to say everyone must become a vegetarian. People have all kinds of reasons for eating meat, from digestive disorders that make them unable to process vegetables, to a lack of food knowledge and willpower.

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          1. People have all kinds of reasons for eating meat, from digestive disorders that make them unable to process vegetables,
            Really? You have a link to some scientific evidence for this?

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          2. I missed that … Thank you.
            I haven’t been able to find any scientific evidence/studies (yet) that some people are allergic/cannot process all vegetables.

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          3. Not sure. But I quit drinking milk/cream about the same time I stopped eating animals and on the rare occasion where I’ve had a brain fart and put milk in my coffee it repeated on me almost immediately.,
            If I use ”milk” for cereal or fruit salad I’ll use a substitute.

            Liked by 1 person

          4. It’s the meat that is causing constipation and when you fart it creates such a downdraft you are lifted off the seat and bang your head on the porcelain.
            Solution? Become vegetarian then you won’t be so full of shit, Jeff! 🙂

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          5. I suffer from heartburn and CANNOT eat any kind of acidic veggies/fruit. (I LOVE pineapple but it kills my stomach.) Not only that, but the sauce used in MANY foods is tomato-based which also causes me great discomfort. More often than I like, I have to rely on my heartburn Rx.

            I think I may have mentioned once before that years ago (in my much younger days), I did go on a vegetarian diet for about a year. However, as they often do, life’s circumstances changed and the diet fell by the wayside.

            While I DO see your point related to the killing of animals for food, quite frankly, at my age –and living with someone who most definitely likes his steaks and ribs and bacon and … Well, it’s just not worth the division it would cause.

            So, while I may support your “cause” …

            Liked by 1 person

          6. Most of my main courses are prepacked vegan food.
            Burgers, pies, schnitzels, or veggie sausages,or nuggets etc
            The other veggies I eat are no different than what the average meat eater would serve with their main course – potatoes, carrots, beans, rice,cabbage etc.
            I’m not a great fan of green or red peppers ( other than the chili variety) so avoid them unless cooked.

            The ”fake meat” that is currently available doesn’t really taste that different to the real thing ( seriously, what does chicken really taste like?) and once flavoured with salt or other condiments I challenge anyone to tell the difference after a breaking-in period.
            For me the transition was instant.

            Well, it’s just not worth the division it would cause.

            It might surprise you to know that my crew all eat meat, and we get along meal-wise.
            For example. Today’s lunch was home made pizza.
            The crew added meat and chicken to theirs.

            Liked by 1 person

          7. Your “crew” is much more tolerant of your eating habits than my other-half would ever be of mine if I switched.

            ‘Nuf said.

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          8. Here I am curious. Why would your other half be intolerant if you stopped eating animals?
            Is he responsible for all the cooking at your spot?

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          9. Yes, he’s primarily the cook. I do give him a break once in awhile (under duress … I really don’t enjoy cooking.) We both try to eat healthy … lots of veggies, salads in the summertime, and fruits in season.

            Please Ark, let’s leave it at that, OK? I know your position and now you know mine. The End.

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          10. I write posts about religion, gun control, abortion and other stuff which many think are controversial. I appreciate your visits and input. But when I put up a post about vegetarianism no one is holding a loaded carrot to your head ordering you to comment.
            😉

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          11. That’s true. No loaded carrot. But if you look back, my original comment was just an FYI … and I clearly indicated I wasn’t going to take sides. But then you immediately jumped in with your “suffering” question. I suppose I could have ignored it, but as with other topics, it’s all about sharing perspectives and opinions, yes?

            When it got to the point where the conversation was obviously going nowhere, I felt it best to back off. 😙

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          12. Every conversation goes somewhere and one can hope that there will be something, no matter how apparently insignificant, learnt along the way.

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          13. You can take a horse to water …
            On saying this I can state that the others eat considerably less meat based meals, so I am pleased I am having some influence.

            And as I’ve mentioned before,my decision was based solely on ethical grounds and how I felt about eating other animals.
            I was simply unable to turn a blind eye and switch off.
            *shrug*

            Liked by 1 person

          14. Well, it’s just not worth the division it would cause.

            Nan, that is also where I struggle to be a proactive hard-line activist on all or any battlefront. I absolutely include myself as a part of the animal kingdom food-chain, as an evolved Homo sapien, once in the trees, jungles, and grasslands of the African Savanna, just as vulnerable to sometimes/rarely(?) NOT be at the top of the food chain just like thousands of other animals. Life and surviving on this daunting planet can be precarious no matter where one is on the food-chain. 😬 And Ark, that is not meant at all to minimize your position here. I am often appalled by how some humans treat animals and their ecosystems/biomes. 😦

            Liked by 1 person

  2. For most of my life I was under the impression that we needed meat in our diets in order to have the necessary vitamins and minerals. Several years ago, my oldest son became a vegetarian and I discovered that all my fears were unfounded. He’s happy and healthy. Since then I have gradually reduced my meat intake to almost none, although I still eat fish and dairy products.

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  3. Ark,

    To be very forthright with you my Friend, I am indeed one of your regular readers, of course, and I am indeed very hesitant and honestly uninformed on this important, controversial topic. 😬 There are two topics I usually steer clear of for several reasons:

    1) Vegetarian/Vegan Diets and why.
    2) Feminism Movements, subjects, laws, misogyny, etc.

    I have found that most often that no matter HOW HARD I try to understand and support proponents of the above, it seems 85% – 90% of the time I inevitably put my foot in my mouth with what I say and I end up on the wrong side of the arguments—in some cases I’ve been bent over and reamed with no lubrication by those I’m trying to understand and I come away feeling utterly idiotic and useless.

    So… I stay silent most of the time, like right now… or rather not so much right now. Lol 😏 I don’t feel I have anything significant to contribute other than polarizing people.

    And Ark, it is difficult for me because as you know well, I have grown up in a culture (Texas) that LOVES their animal meat regularly in their diets. Today I find myself lost most of the time in these debates. 😔

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    1. Today I find myself lost most of the time in these debates.

      I would say I understand your point, but I really don’t and this does not in any way answer the question regarding the terrible suffering of farmed animals.
      I would probably be correct by saying you consider the ( Chinese) practice of eating dogs abhorrent, yes?

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      1. As I read over your responses Ark to Nan, Anne, and Jeff, I imagine you as a pit-bull that hangs from the end of a rope it has sunk its canine teeth into, GROWLING, dangling down from a tree branch, NEVER letting go of its bite/grip, growling some more, and wagging its entire body… swinging and swaying back-n-forth, for hours and hours. 😉 So…

        No, I would not want to eat the/that pit-bull or Chinese dogs. Yes, that is abhorrent.

        Now, what is “the pit-bull” going to do with my reply here I wonder? 🤔

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        1. You would not eat a dog, yet seem to have no qualms eating a cow, sheep, chicken or pig.

          Do you believe the terrible suffering farmed animals experience in any way justifies slaughtering and eating them simply to satisfy one’s taste buds?

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          1. Ark, if I may, I’d like to just say—bail-out as you put it a comment somewhere else—that my diet, eating habits have changed A LOT since animal cruelty has been increasingly made more public and relentless. I no longer eat beef. My current diet consists of poultry and seafood, particularly chicken, turkey, or pheasant, dove, etc, and salmon, tuna, shrimp, oysters, and scallops. Are oysters and scallops considered animals? I’m asking honestly; I don’t know. 🤔

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    1. Good for you.
      And do you think the obvious suffering animals experience in any way justifies slaughtering and eating them simply to satisfy one’s taste buds?

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        1. Unfortunately, this is the point where many meat eaters bail out of the conversation or offer weird half-arsed, platitudes.

          I doubt the average meat eater would dare /have the stomach to watch an hour long documentary on slaughterhouses.
          I saw ten minutes of a doccie my sister posted a while back and I had to switch it off. I became physically ill and had disturbed sleep patterns for nearly a month afterwards.

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          1. Predators feeding upon other animals in the wild Ark—which I’ve witnessed many many times LIVE with my own eyes, particularly when I lived in Kerrville, TX in The Hill Country—doesn’t seem to disturb me as much as others for obvious reasons. Another example are/were alligators in south Texas along the Gulf Coast where I spent many a vacation with my paternal family.

            Our family land of about 100-120 acres had a bayou run thru it which fed into Chocolate Bay which fed into the Gulf of Mexico. MASSIVE 10, 15, 20-foot alligators swam up and down our bayou at night and during the day and they fed on many of my grandparent’s calves, ducks, birds with nests on the ground and their voraciousness was utterly horrifying—like what you’d see on those Serengeti documentaries of massive crocodiles feeding and feasting on Zebras and Wildebeest crossing the rivers?—and I’ve realized in my long life that Predators are everywhere on Earth. In fact, every living thing on this planet is an energy-seeking predator; plants are living energies sustaining other energy-sucking predators. Truth. Fact.

            Therefore, I am sometimes/often lost in these debates my Friend. And please understand I am really NOT looking to pick a fight or wage a major war on this. When it goes that bad I feel absolutely horrible as a human being. 😦

            Liked by 2 people

          2. Yep. I’ve seen such videos and they are horrible. Is all that really necessary? I mean, really?! And the things they genetically alter, kill, and then sell as “chicken” is terrifying to behold too. WTF are those creatures? Chickens they ain’t!

            Liked by 1 person

  4. The rules in Australia are incredibly tight, with inspectors (and vets) present… Which is then thrown out the window with our live meat trade to Asia where there are virtually no rules.

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  5. Much of the functioning of the world depends heavily on not thinking/considering a whole variety of things. We presume the family unit is a positive thing. We presume governments work in our (individual) best interest. We presume the police is there to always protect us. We treat meat as if it’s not a part of an animal. Even the way meat is packaged and sold is in itself designed to obscure the origin of the product.
    Now I wouldn’t defend the consumption of meat and try to avoid it as much as possible these days – but have you considered how much we must stop doing if we’re going to seriously consider what goes on in the world? That means not buying those bell peppers which are the result of what’s tantamount to indentured servitude in Morocco. Not buying the hearts of palm from Indonesia. Not buying products made in the appalling sweat shop conditions in Bangladesh. Maybe not buying products made by Orthodox communities in Israel. And there are all those abuses in the cocoa industry in Africa and Brazil. Some days there are so many things going through my mind I’m almost paralysed, holding my breath, trying to not inflict any more harm on the world.

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  6. Was just reading one of PT’s earlier comments about “us” as early humans … and it got me to thinking. Isn’t it the more common evolutionary thought that the human brain took a big step forward when meat was added to the diet? True, animals were hunted individually and not “slaughtered” as they are now, but meat as a part of the diet seems to play an important role. So, taking that into account, how would you feel about eating meat that you obtained yourself … in the wild? Or is that also verboten?

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    1. Interestingly, I think from an ethical perspective, that’s a whole other story. Historically speaking I believe what that meant in many cultures was a family would kill one animal (In much of Europe a pig, in Argentina or Brazil a cow, for Inuits a seal) which would serve as food for much of the year after being transformed into a variety of products. The current economic model has removed any semblance of ethics from the equation by completely disregarding suffering. Just consider that imbalance of power; how much is a human’s whim worth? Is a little craving when walking down the street worth a death? What sort of death is it worth? How much suffering are you prepared to accept you personally justified by your consumption? In the chain of suffering, how much do you cause per day? Battery chickens? Pigs who will never walk?

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      1. Terry Pratchett explores the culture of raising a pig and killing it for food to last a year in a couple of his Witch novels. One of the witches is a Pig Borer – one who whizzes around the countryside and bores a pig to death by talking to it! As Pratchett notes: a lot less noisy and messy.

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        1. In the Spanish and Portuguese countryside it’s a very common tradition:
          “The “matanza del cerdo” (pig slaughter) is a long-lived annual tradition of villages, where families and communities spend 2-3 days to slaughter a pig and then process all parts of the pig (meat, fat, bones, skin, ears, legs, hooves, tail and blood) to create hams and sausages, bacon, cracklings, and other products. It is a tremendous amount of work that requires several sets of hands. Nothing goes to waste, which is where the Andalusian saying “the only thing you cannot eat of a pig, is its squeak” comes from.”
          In some villages the farmer would sell a pig to a family and then raise it for them, or some variation of that.

          Liked by 1 person

    2. @ Nan.
      So, you are suggesting that those who do not eat meat are somewhat lacking in the ”cerebral department”? Hmm …
      1×2 = 2
      2×2=4
      3×2= 7
      4×2= ?
      Dammit … I forgot. Hold on, let me get my calculator.

      re: eating wild animals.

      If this were to be the norm, aside from the outlandish images this produces of several billion Elmer J. Fudds’ out with a shotgun hunting ”Wabbits” there is the very real situation that pretty much all land animals wild or otherwise would probably be extinct sometime around next Tuesday afternoon, or Wednesday morning, and if all the Catholics abstain from meat on Friday then definitely by next weekend.

      I hope that answers your question, Nan?

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  7. Hey! I never shy away from controversial topics. It’s just that we’ve had this conversation before and reached a stalemate. I love eating fish, so I’ll give you my fishing tackle when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.:)

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  8. This is a fab topic for discussion. I had the pleasure of hosting Alex O’Conner (aka CosmicSkeptic) on my Proscenium podcast discussing his active promotion of veganism.

    Lets just say that after we did the recording and I discussed the issue with my wife and daughter. We made a family decision to forgo meat and dairy and avoid products that actively result in animal cruelty.

    This was 4 months ago, and we’ve not looked back.

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    1. Excellent! Just to confirm: to date your hair and teeth haven’t begun falling out, you don’t salivate uncontrollably when walking past a MacDonald’s, your ability to do times tables hasn’t diminished and you haven’t suddenly lost the plot completely and begun supporting Manchester United?

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      1. I can affirm all of that.

        In addition, we’re eating nicer food because we’re taking more effort to think about what we’re going to eat. Processed food has effectively left our diet so we’re eating more healthily. It does come at a time cost because preparation time has increased.

        I don’t think we’re spending more on food though.

        I can honestly say, I’m not missing meat. There are certain meat dishes which I would love to eat again, but I don’t mourn them and don;t look at a dish of vegetables and wish it had meat in it.

        I am struggling with cheese though. I love my cheese and cutting dairy means no to all the cheeses I love. I do miss those.

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        1. It does surprise that what you thought you would hate to give up, suddenly becomes something you cannot understand why you didn’t give up sooner!
          I suppose it is like many such habits/addictions.
          I had a similar reaction once I finally gave up cigarettes.

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  9. Where we live there are a lot of vegans. However, these same vegans complain nonstop about the fields of commercial greenhouses to produce all the salad and berry fruit crops.In an ideal world they’d all grow in the open fields but pure organic farming is not viable on a mass scale. We have to compromise. I am not that keen on meat and would live on fresh fish if I could afford it.

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