Evolution and the bible

I am having an interesting discussion with Lander 7 – a Christian –  on how he perceives evolution and the bible.

The dialogue began on his blog but is now on an older post at my spot .

The discussion is in its infancy but  I thought I’d link it and maybe some of you who are more clued up on the finer points of evolution would like to join in?

https://attaleuntold.wordpress.com/2019/06/26/evolution/comment-page-1/#comment-205417

 

Ark.


67 thoughts on “Evolution and the bible

  1. If you are saying a man was once a bird, a fish, a tree, or a whale, then no, Evolution is the joke of the ages.

    If you are saying a whitetail deer who lived solely in the forest years ago, now has offspring who roam your neighborhood, then no, a deer is still a deer, has NOT evolved, and merely ADAPTED but was/is/ and will always be a deer, so in that regard, evolution be damned, and God’s word is still true, just as it appears.

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      1. Your friend doug, remember, archx? He assured us that ALL life sprang from the fish, the bird, etc, and all other such nonsense that he said was common to evolutionists and atheists.

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        1. Did he?
          All life began in the sea, so I understand.

          Wiki …

          The earliest known life-forms on Earth are putative fossilized microorganisms, found in hydrothermal vent precipitates, that may have lived as early as 4.28 billion years ago, relatively soon after the oceans formed 4.41 billion years ago, and not long after the formation of the Earth 4.54 billion years ago.

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          1. Ok then, I’ll just leave you alone to enjoy the comraderie of others who agree with your illogical, unsustainable, untested, unprovable, and totally assumptuous opinions that contradict provable science.

            I will say in departing for today that Genesis has the first and last word on the origins of life.

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          2. CS, when you can provide undeniable proof the writers of Genesis were present when all things were put into motion, including the creation of humans and animals (as they are today), then perhaps a person might consider your statements as credible.

            Until then, it will continue to be considered just a story — one that is “illogical, unsustainable, untested, unprovable, and totally assumptuous.” 🙂

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          3. NAN:

            Funny you should say that. How did those ancient scribes know what God said, and to whom? Who was the unsung eyewitness who reported (infallibly) (it’s in The Bible, so it’s the Bible truth) on the events?

            Obviously there were witnesses who seem to prefer to remain unsung. But who could be floating around in the infinite not-yet-existent nowhere when the spirit of the Lord moved on the waters (wot waters?)(oops) and said the magic words?

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  2. Through all the hairsplitting reasons to make some sense of religion, why does one do that? Why go to all this trouble to build a personal story around this myth? I remember in Wally’s case it was a woman. Prior to that he didn’t viva a shit. I wonder what is at play here?

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    1. You’re the former believer, you tell me?
      Perhaps you would like to use the link and ask Lander 7 why he(?) accepts evolution ”as is” and yet thinks the bible is divinely inspired.

      My fillings immediately began to ache when I read this.

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      1. I don’t have that answer yet. But if you remember, it took Wally a long time to admit to that. My question is, why has he gone to so much effort to figure out a way for this to make sense to him, because it didn’t. Why go to all that effort to find Jesus?

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          1. I will see if I can find time to get into it. Not sure if you saw one of his more recent posts, but in it he described some doctrine, what people believe, what the Bible says, how it was explained to him. Then he stated what he actually believes. Even the explainers didn’t make sense to him and he chose his own interpretation to justify his belief, which makes it sound like he’s obligated to believe. I didn’t have time to get into at the time, nor do I til later today.

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          2. I think the very last point in that post was the most hypocritical. He quotes a verse from Deuteronomy about keeping all of the laws, isn’t that pre-Christian? Isn’t the Old Testament invalid after Jesus? Sounds very fundamentalist to me

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          3. *Shrug* I get that more often than not.
            I can’t relate as a former believer like many of you lot, so my questions are often more ‘pointed’.
            ‘Tis the nature of the beast.

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          4. I asked him this “My question is, why have you gone to so much effort to figure out a way for this to make sense to you, because it didn’t?Since everybody has their own secret decoder ring to make sense of it, the real question may be why. Why go to all that effort to find Jesus, a woman perhaps?

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        1. JIM:

          you don’t find Jesus. Jesus finds you~! (I think …) But don’t fret, if either of you is going to find the other, God knew even before The Creation that it would happen. (Omniscience might be a pain, but don’t knock it …)

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          1. So if ol’ God knew waaaaay back then … what does that do to the concept of Free Will?

            (You know … I ask this one a lot, and it shuts everybody up.)

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          2. Who are we to judge Yahweh?

            😆 In that case, if all being totally fair for all humans capable of asking simple questions, then following their logic in that question, I beg to ask them “Who are you to judge my God & Savior Sasquatch/Bigfoot!?” Because OF COURSE if there is such a thing as common, universal liberty and equality for all humans, MY question is just as fair and reasonable as their’s.

            But we non-Christians and non-theists know full well that they do not and CANNOT allow us the exact identical, universal liberty, equality, and reasoning as they (arrogantly) presume for themselves. 🙄

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      2. @CopiousSlop:
        “…I’ll just leave you alone to enjoy the comraderie [sic] of others” blah blah blah.

        No! Please don’t leave us without sharing more of the wonders of your insight, and your continuing demonstration of my thesis that creationists are illiterate.

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    2. I think basically the Bible wrote itself. It looked down and said, whoa, we need some proof here, so it thought and thought, and said, I think, therefore I am. And it was.

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  3. My forty years in teaching taught me that teaching one person at a time is inefficient. Teaching people who are not serious about learning is boring, just going through the education dance for form’s sake.

    I wish you well, but anyone who has become an adult and doesn’t accept evolution hasn’t established that they are serious about learning if it is true or not.

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          1. That was a weak pun on behalf of American moralistic Christians. Ass being (a) a wee donkey-like animule, and (b) American for the bottie (translkates loosely into English as ‘arse’

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  4. You’re dealing with someone who is where I used to be as a Christian. This person generally understands evolution and accepts some of its consequences as it relates to belief. That is, living things need to have evolved in order for them to exist in their current state. The acceptance of this doesn’t extend as far out as it would for someone who doesn’t have to shoehorn it into an existing structure of faith belief.

    On the plus side, people like this don’t generally try to convince their friends to eschew established scientific principles in favor of Bronze Age worldviews. However, pinning down the extent of the belief is difficult because it will eventually run to a place where no knowledge exists or there’s no philosophical certainty (that 100% certainty this person mentioned in your other post’s comments). In short, you could get this person to agree in principle to something without having to refute that person’s belief system.

    Contrast this with someone like CS, above. CS hasn’t demonstrated any knowledge of biology, evolution, or anything related to how organisms function. If pressed, he might not even acknowledge that everyone starts out as a single-celled organism. The person you’re talking with isn’t going to go that far, and might be brave enough under certain circumstances to acknowledge CS’s ignorance.

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      1. Not always, Ark. Sometimes faith made me self-conscious. I was aware that some beliefs weren’t easily justified and that not everyone would be happy with them. So yes or no questions felt like a setup at times, regardless of the situation.

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        1. Sometimes faith made me self-conscious

          Yes! Where cognitive dissonance threatens: – ”How did the dinosaurs fit on the ark?” – God works in mysterious ways etc etc ad nauseum

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  5. Before I read the comments, all I know of evolution is that originally all was void and without form etc etc and then monkeys and garden slugs and then us and traffic cops; I still have problems with life evolving from nothing, but even bigger problems with life evolving from God. For that matter, how did God evolve~? (Beyond here be monsters, so let’s not go down that track …)

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  6. I’d like to help you Ark, but it seems the Norwich v. Liverpool game has started and that game and GORGEOUS sport is so, SO much more enjoyable, entertaining, and worthy of my time than—as Steve appropriately pointed out—clueless mules/donkeys that refuse and fight to be moved from their one ancient spot on the ground… where they’ve surrounded themselves with piles and piles and piles of manure over 2-3 millenia, much less drink the Water of Wisdom and Enlightenment we try to lead them to. 😉

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      1. Indeed. Now all the long-standing records held by “The Invincibles,” 2 or 3 of Man City’s records, most points in a Premier League season, Klopp just won his 5th Manager of the Month award beating Pep’s previous 4… I mean Ark, this is just getting RIDICULOUS how mind-boggling your boys are doing!!!! 😲

        And thanks to your Reds Ark, now the Relegation Zone teams are already being talked about in JANUARY for God’s sake because the League winners are determined now: Liverpool. This is just beyond unbelievable! Lol

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          1. I have only heard snippets and skimmed over articles at this point, but honestly, this doesn’t surprise me one bit. I’m very happy they’ll make MC pay BIG TIME for their cheating, etc, to set an example.

            But you know Ark, and I am by no means stereotyping with this personal assessment of mine, but the INSANE amount of money that was brought into Man City (in 2007 – 2008) by Thaksin Shinawatra and Abu Dhabi-based Abu Dhabi United Group Investment and Development Limited and a Middle Eastern business mentality of ‘I/We can do whatever tha f*ck we want cuz that’s how we wealthy Arabs do it and have been the last 50-yrs‘… it obviously brings with it way, WAY too many temptations of corruption, bending the rules, and unethical practices galore. Billions and trillions of dollars/Euros tend to do that. Surprise, surprise. 🤣

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          2. 🤣🤣🤣 Was there ever any doubt? 😉 😛 Hah! As long as the Western Hemisphere nations continue to be totally addicted to oil/fossil fuels and trashing the planet, the Middle Eastern countries (tribal monarchies) will sell it to us and/or take it. But we are such long-term ADDICTS to their oil they’ll never have to worry.

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          3. My wife, who has become quite the footy fundy this season, made an offhand comment while watching highlights of the Leicester – Wolves match. As she returned to the kitchen I heard her say:
            ”Emily, Leicester have a lot of English players in their side.”
            Tells you tons about the state of the English game.

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          4. 😄 Okay, so she was also being a little (or a lot!) sarcastic then. Yes, she’s right in that sarcastic sense. What bothers me about that Ark is the effect it is having on national teams, international play, and the World Cup. Today and in the near future there will be many national teams with foreign players on their roster and in their first 11. 😔

            But regarding clubs? Pffffttt, be sure to warn her that us Yanks are coming in waves… soon!!! As the funny apropos WW2 adage went, it now applies to modern football and perhaps your wife’s attitude… 😛

            The Yanks are overpaid, oversexed and over here!

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          5. Ahhhh, so she’s not up on the full, latest goings on of the stage and behind the scenes of the EPL. However, the Champions League there have many more British lads playing so she shouldn’t be too bothered about her cherished sport founded in her homeland, right? 😉

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          6. Well damn it. I just don’t know enough about your family Ark! Perhaps I missed your post or two about family details like that in your normal topics of horticulture, avian and all things animalistic, and How to Stalk Psycho Christians. Ya think? 😄 I presumed she was Brit. My apologies.

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          7. However, regarding football, she WOULD have much more to cheer about if she were a Brit by birth instead of Portuguese. I mean, she does have CR7 and a handful of other Portuguese players—and one flash in the bucket win in the Euros 2016—to cheer about. But otherwise, ummm… well, you know what I’m saying. 😉 🤭

            Now of course she could fire back at me MANY embarrassing moments of our men’s U.S. National Team games and tournaments. Hahaha!

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          8. Lol… is that perhaps because she doesn’t want to fan the flames and nuclear fallout created by her hubby and men in the family? 😉 I mean, why make something already wildly boyish and chest-beating… much worse? 😛

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          9. Oh, we’ve had lots of fun and games during world cup and the Euros when Portugal have played England.
            We were in Portugal in 2004. That was an experience … right up to the final against Greece, remember?

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          10. I do! What a topsy-turvy tourney that was! AND Greece eventually won it! But Ark, WOW… you take your life into your own hands if you go too far. 😜 She knows where you sleep at night Mate! Lol

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