Does Your Religion Depend On Where You Were Born?

Posted on by Ark

No, is the claim from a Pastor, who, in his usual display  of Christian love argues:

….much beloved of atheist fundamentalists who think it is a killer question.  But the answer really is not that difficult if you stop to think about it….its just that few do!

I don’t suppose the dear Pastor includes himself among those who don’t ”think about it”.

He goes on to assert …

It also fails because it presupposes that culture and family are the sole determining factors. It does not allow for people changing their minds, being converted or for the possibility of supernatural conversion.

I wonder how ”supernatural conversion” works. I would be interested in discussing such an event with anyone with direct evidence.

He then does what appears to be an About Face with this statement …

However, it is clear that religion does depend to a large extent on your culture, your environment, your family and where you are born. But your relationship with God does not.

How does one have any sort of relationship with his god if one is not aware of him… sorry … Him in the first place?

I hadn’t heard this one before …

The notion that Christianity is primarily a white European religion is a false one.

 

And to cap it all we are told this …

And lets not forget the Holy Spirit.

Ah yes …. and let’s also not forget child indoctrination and forced conversions.

Love this quote, don’t you?

When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said ‘Let us pray. ‘ We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.

Archbishop Desmond Tutu

75 thoughts on “Does Your Religion Depend On Where You Were Born?”

  1. “Depend on” is too strong. Your religion is strongly influenced by where you were born. But it goes too far to say that it depends on where you were born.

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  2. The notion that Christianity is primarily a white European religion is a false one.

    Ark you must live under a rock if you haven’t heard this one. It is generally true that christianity as practiced in most of Africa today came hand in hand with the colonialist. The only exception is the Orthodox church in Egypt and Ethiopia which are quite old and they don’t evangalize. Another counterargument is some of the early church fathers were Africans.

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    1. He agrees it is a false notion, I’d just never heard it before. He goes on to explain that, the majority of xians live in S America, and Africa, and a growing number in China – thanks to missionaries of course.

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  3. I think the amount of influence a religion has on a country (today) would ultimately help to shape what religion if any one might adhere to after they are born.

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  4. “I wonder how ”supernatural conversion” works.” Well, I first realized Islam was the One, True Faith, when Allah sent Mohammad to me, as a glimmering light reflecting off my lamp shade, and he told me, “Islam is real. All other faiths, especially Christianity, are false and pathways to Hell.” I was converted intermediately, supernaturally speaking.
    So, this Pastor you quote is very much correct. It doesn’t matter where you’re born as to what faith you practice. What matters is that you practice the CORRECT faith and that you come to realize the correct faith is, indeed, Islam. If this doesn’t happen to you, sadly, no matter where you’re born, you’ll burn in Hell with the rest of the infidels who worship false gods, like Christians, or those who worship no god at all, like atheists. Clear as day, is it not. Allahu Akbar

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  5. It’s so obvious even Wikipedia knows it. “ Islam is the principle religion in Iraq, and has a following constituting 97% of the national population”. What are the chances you’d grow up Hindu? It’s very regional even among the sub-sects. But weird how nobody knew this intimate Christian god outside a tiny strip of land until they hit the road with it.

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      1. Religion may have a very important role to play. I just can’t imagine what it is. It really doesn’t matter which one as long as they get you in belief.

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  6. “No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, However, it is clear that religion does depend to a large extent on where you are born.”

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        1. I am finding a note of … not sure what the correct term is, here – desperation – in Robertson’s posts that, like many of his ilk seem more interested in putting out nonsense like this rather than constructing well thought out arguments for their religious beliefs.
          You might raise an eyebrow at his comments.

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          2. He tends to double posts over on Third Space.
            I’m sure he has taken to deleting comments there too, but initially they do get through.
            Incidentally,comments on the posts of the other writers remain intact. suggesting he is as bad there as he is in his own website!

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          4. Have no idea.
            He seems to think he is God’s Gift, which on one level I would agree. However, if his posts are anything to go by and especially the videos he posts it isn’t a gift for Christians!

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          5. Is banning the blogging equivalent of putting your paws over your ears and howling “LA LA LA LA LAAAAA” until they give up and go away?

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          6. Probably.
            They contend that the likes of John and I are merely out to mock and ridicule. While this is part of it – for who would pass up the chance if fun with someone who thinks dinosaurs co-existed with humans? -for the most part they simply do not like to deal with reality.

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  8. Such a fatuous argument. According to it, I and those like me must believe in spirits and ancestors. After all, that is the majority religion of the masses in South Africa, however much they try to mix in some Christianity.

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    1. Colon:

      I dunno about spirits … but ancestors definitely did exist and once were real.
      And if you do the sums, you have a lot more of them than good ol’ JC.

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      1. As a matter of fact it can be argued that they remain as real as they ever were. They tie in with the whole reincarnation thing, and the latter has had researchers produce some incredible results. An automatic reflex action causes religionists to reject such evidence, without offering any tenable grounds to do so. I have been looking at it with increasing interest recently.

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          1. Martini has done a good follow up as recorded in his record of deep hypnoses subjects in ‘It’s a Wonderful Afterlife’. The way responses correspond, and the way information not known at the time check out on rigorous research, have to be impressive.

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  10. I don’t think the pastor understands the point of the question. The whole point is to demonstrate no supernatural effect on conversion. If there was one intelligence bringing people to knowledge of it, one would expect such a shift to have a measurable pattern. It would deviate from statistical norms.

    Instead, we have location and established social norms being strong factors in influencing faith. The Internet and hardcore missionary work (double entendre semi-intended) are to blame for the spread in non-Christian societies. Nothing indicates a divine hand on the scales.

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  11. Your religion depends not only (and not necessarily) where YOU were born, but where your family was born. That can include ancestors and living family as well. My family was French Canadian, and that is Catholic spelled backwards, all the way. I was born in this country, two decades after they emigrated here. But my heritage was French Canadian.

    You take your religion (at least as children) from your family, the people you grew up with. What happens later is something totally unconnected. I really can’t see a Baptist family raising a Methodist child, or a Jewish family with little Catholic kids running around. That makes no sense.

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    1. Today it might, but one of the parents usually dominates.
      In my mother’s mixed family, she and her sister were raised catholic by their Presbyterian father after their Catholic mother had died, in the home of their Lutheran step-mother. They were all Christian. I would say that Mom was more flexible than my father, who was strict Catholic, but was the greatest sinner of us all.
      I was born Catholic, my wife strict, fundamentalist Church of Christ. She left that as a teenager. Today, I’m atheist, she is not ready to go that far, so a ‘none.’ Our kids seem to be heathens of some sort (we don’t talk much about it),
      I think grand kids are uncommitted for the most part. I agree with you that family pressure for religion is often extreme and leads to rifts in many cases.

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  12. Some remote native African tribes swapped one spiritual voodoo witch doctor for another called God. This had violent consequences when some of their own people including kids were murdered or ostracised as either witches or possessed by the devil.

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  13. “It also fails because it presupposes that culture and family are the sole determining factors. It does not allow for people changing their minds, being converted or for the possibility of supernatural conversion.”

    Ignoring the supernatural thing, which is ridiculous, it sounds like picking of nits to me. Just because a very few might change their minds, it completely ignores the vast majority who will not. It is a fallacious claim.

    Is really the best gotcha this guy could come up with? I dont think they are really trying…

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  14. “And let’s not forget the Holy Spirit.”

    Is that the bloke who raped Jesus’ mum, then did a Roman Polanski and buggered off? Does Magic Sperm leave DNA traces for the forensics boys and girls to collect, and mount a case for the prosecution? Is it all too late by now for a reckoning with #MeToo?

    I could ask Pastor Robertson these and more burning questions, I guess, but methinks he might be a tad outraged by the impertinence.

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  17. There is just a nauseating endless amount of fallacy and overused bias generalities and unsupported opines in these 6 quotes you’ve posted Ark! Astounding. After reading every single one I found myself yelling WHAT!!!!? WTH!!!? and chuckling, asking What freakin’ planet does this man live on?

    …the answer really is not that difficult if you stop to think about it… its just that few do!

    And do all “thinkers” and “non-thinkers” check in with you Robertson when they’ve committed these actions? He collects all this data? Bwahahahahaha! FACT: thousands or millions DO think about it, have thought about it, and plenty have published their analyses. Their personal religious beliefs or secular beliefs are secondary at best, or SHOULD be if examination is equitable for self and others. These 19 words are utterly useless; have no substance/proof and thus gibberish, noise. At the end of my comment I’ll share a link of 2 separate studies, out of many more, that directly disprove Robertson’s personal (deluded?) perceptions.

    [Atheist Fundamentalism] also fails because it presupposes that culture and family are the sole determining factors.

    Wrong. Flat out wrong. Again, at the end of my comment I’ll share a link of 2 separate studies, out of many more, that directly disprove Robertson’s personal (deluded?) perceptions.

    However, it is clear that religion does depend to a large extent on your culture, your environment, your family and where you are born. But your relationship with God does not.

    HAH! Ironically that is exactly what Secularists have found in their studies and report in their publications. Is this man playing both sides of the fence? Is he burning BOTH ENDS of the Nature vs. Nurture candle? 🤔🤨

    Ark, you state: How does one have any sort of relationship with his god if one is not aware of him… I’d add that there are SO MANY ideas, concepts, and caricatures of God(s) or Goddesses, etc, that one could easily spend the greater majority of their entire life, IF—huge emphasis on IF!—fairly assessing all the choices and why. BUT reality and the scientific studies/surveys consistently show that most youth, teenagers, and young adults—no matter the plethora of available paradigms, ideologies, “religions,” or world-views available from around the world—choose the path of least resistance and most opportunities to prosper… LOCALLY, within/of the family/community, and based on the level and quality of education attained and available locally/regionally. Here’s my two studies from a 2013 blog-post I did:

    Studies done from 2007* through 2011^ in 40 countries around the world, including the United States show that the rational choice to adhere to a religion is heavily self-centered, not theological, not necessarily empirical, or not even miraculous, but instead based on the question, what will the decision cost ME?

    Regarding his last two quotes you’ve shared…

    The notion that Christianity is primarily a white European religion is a false one.

    […]

    And lets not forget the Holy Spirit.

    Once again, I loathe the fact that he is so outlandishly general, vague, and projects in his gibberish to his readers/followers that well-read, well-educated people (scholars too) know damn good and well that Christianity could NEVER be a Anglo-European religion! How idiotic of a statement!

    Christianity is undeniably a Greco-Roman Apotheosis that hijacked selected forms and rituals, tweaked others, and doctored up over 45 circulating manuscripts regarding the ascetic Jewish sect “The Way” Movement. Its Hebrew-Aramaic leader, teacher, reformer Yeshua bar Yosef comes out of a very complex Second Temple Judaism/Messianism at serious odds with the Roman Empire. Over the entire existence of the Roman Republic-to-Imperial Empire almost every kingdom, empire, nation, or culture it contacted lost and/or was absorbed into Greco-Roman culture and sociopolitical dynamics to eventually be diluted or mostly forgotten forever.

    Robertson is a bogus, crappy historian not to mention a purveyor of bogus propaganda, to put it mildly. 🙄

    * – 2007 study will be below in my next reply-comment to this one

    ^ – 2011 study “Faith in Flux“: https://www.pewforum.org/2009/04/27/faith-in-flux/

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    2. Yes, that bit about “supernatural conversion” was a howler, even by Robertson’s abysmal standards.

      Is tarring and feathering still permissable, in this day and age? Or putting miscreants in the stocks, and pelting them with rotten fruit?

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  19. Didn’t Christopher Columbus record that he was greeted with a heartfelt “Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ!” by every tribesman he met in the New World?

    Checkmate, atheists!

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  20. For the most part the short answer to the question at the top is yes.

    Truth be told, in China for example , people eschew the religion of the fathers, daring to live under threat of death- and live BETTER lives according to their own words.

    Some people value truth above all, so many defect even within their birth religion. I’ve said befor that Christianity per say is not a religion, but a Way of life- where all are invited to partake, regardless of tongue or nation.

    In this all other religions of the world are big fails.

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    1. ”Christianity per say is not a religion, but a Way of life- where all are invited to partake, regardless of tongue or nation.”

      Yes,and history reminds us that The Inquisition extended this invitation, and sometimes a tongue was not even required.

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      1. Tkx ark but why must you insist on defining Christianity/ while good people everywhere live lives of peace and toleration-

        What you point to is something other than. Pretty soon you will saying that Christians

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        1. Because Christians cannot define themselves in any unified manner so it is left to the rest of us to define it for you. And our definition is always based on the example set by Christians themselves. Christians such as The Inquisition.

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          1. Hmmm. So john Baptist was a killer? Seems you have him mixed up with criminals.

            Do like I do. I allow scripture to set the parameters.

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          3. Aah, but were his killings justified? Heck, if the Amalekites were left to themselves- he would have succeeded where Hitler failed, so yeah, some deaths, even by the thousands were obviously correct.

            Some real bad actors and some even worse offspring. Moses however had the foresight of One greater.

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          4. Correct? You consider mass murder correct ?
            If any of it were true it would be regarded as sick and the character regarded as a war criminal in more ”enlightened times”
            That you would defend such actions simply makes you a sick fuck.

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          5. Why are u saying I am defending such actions. Never implied that-

            I’m telling you God is perfectly within his own counsel when he says ‘kill them all.’

            He knows things you do not . Because people do not pay attention, the likes of Haman and Agag are born.

            You are simply too short sighted and can’t see that some folks and their family are worse than mosquitoes. That g Gc ave brought misery upon themselves.

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          9. Maybe ark I should help you.
            Hitler: Bad (here you go Jews……go take a nice shower…….)

            When a man is put to death on the electric for killing a family and eating the parts that were kept in the freezer……….yes, THAT is sick——–not the killing of a monster—-but the behavior of the monster is sick. If a hundred were found guilty of doing the same, would this be mass murder to end their lives? No.

            Why you cant see this is beyond me. The enemies of Israel have always been far and wide. Without the WARS as recorded in scripture, similar to the wars today but having different motives, people die.

            The Amalekites for example were bad actors. Samuel as directed by God told Saul to ‘kill them all………..’

            Protecting a nation, (pulling the weeds out of your garden so they don’t suck the life out of your tomatoes) is always a good thing. The better question is : when is it justified?

            As in Hitler’s case, he had NO unction from God- so yes, mass murder proved he was a monster.

            Strange how you miss the fact that Moses was considered quite meek- and his life and times proves he was no Hitler-

            But I would agree that TODAY, no man has the right to say ‘God told me to kill every man in this town.’ And scripture reveals the answer why.

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          10. Moses was a mass murderer.
            Period.
            (For those reading along, I should clarify that the character Moses is nothing but an historical construct – a mythological composite figure.)

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          11. So the FICTIONAL character Moses as a mass murderer upsets you?

            Or is it that the actions of Moses who lived upset you? You need a better reason to be upset ark. lol

            But no- he was no mass murderer. To compare the giver of law and ‘thou shalt not kill……………’ with Haman or Hitler is sick.

            He was not a a kor-ean dictator/ he was not a member of Is-is- he was acting under the direction of One greater- and One who promised to keep Israel in perpetuity.

            God is not mocked and He knows what will happen next week- you do not.

            Really though, the book of Esther documents the hatred that people have for the jews- and left to themselves, people would have their way- Haman and his children and his children and his children………do you see the bigger picture?

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          12. Moses … only guilty when he held his own arms up.

            (I still blame the Prime Mover, myself.)

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    2. CS:

      I understand where you are coming from—but I think this is too big an envelopment:

      “In this all other religions of the world are big fails.”

      And in probability they will be saying the same of your own beliefs. With, in all reasonable probability, the same accuracy.

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