True true. Religion is devastating. Imagine if we all collaborated in real terms instead of dragging all that dead weight? We have the capacity to be incredible!
Brilliant because u agree with it ark, but certainly not brilliant in its truthfulness.
The young knowitall male complained about his distaste for ‘stories,’ yet failed to mention one of these ‘stories’ that he finds repulsive.
Maybe I can help him. Joseph sold into slavery was damaging? Jonah’s argument with God regarding another nation? Herod plotting with Pilate was yet another ‘story?’
Don’t think so. The young misfits have one thing in common and it is not intellect, but what scripture so accurately presents about THEM, and this is the singular bane that weaves the threads of all decons.
I found their arguments weak and boring not brilliant.
he didn’t mention one of them, CS, because all of them are object lessons, fairy tales, something made up as guidance, but not necessarily real, no more than Red Riding Hood or the Three Little Pigs, or any other story that distinguishes right and wrong. And that’s all they are.
You have your way, sir, and we have ours.
This artifact (a Roman Imperial Sceptre) found in 2006-2007 at Palatine Hill:
…carefully wrapped in silk and linen and then placed in a wooden box. Alongside it were other boxes holding two other imperial battle standards and ceremonial lance heads. The depth of the burial allowed archaeologists to date the find to Maxentius’ rule.
These imperial sceptres were usually covered in gold-plating or sheets and the globe at the top was BLUE-GREEN representing Earth and “Augustus,” the title of all Roman Emperators after Gaius Octavius Thurinus. The point is that at least as far back as 312 CE all Roman educated aristocracy/senators and most parts of the Empire to the east KNEW back then that our planet was/is completely spherical. Fyi… if you can wrap your tiny pea-brain around that. 🙂
Not sure of the relevance AT ALL prof of your comment here. So I’ll not take your bait to steer a post into the weeds where you will choke by your own ignorance.
Doesn’t it trouble u ark that the world is 75% water?
And that the water stops- when unabated- at the shore line?
Are u aware of the sheer volume and weight of rain, and the fact that water drops FALLING from above…….lucky for you that it doesn’t fall in sheets- u would be crushed under the weight.
Water speaks for itself. Of course there was a Deluge, what’s the problem?
As you will inevitably spew out some rhetorical nonsense about ants and gods, there is little point in discussing this with you.
As you have no desire whatsoever to even try to understand the science behind it I won’t waste any further ”ink”.
Excellent video!
Freedom from religion must feel exhilarating to those who have been buried under its negative influence. Luckily I never had to experience that and feel sorry for those who are still trapped.
I never felt trapped by my religion, and I just sort of drifted away from it. But I will admit life without church every Sunday and sermons and thou shalt and thou shalt not is quite delightful. My way, my choice. It’s empowering.
Always great advice: read the source material. I still think there is no greater argument against all forms of religious belief than their selected scriptures themselves.
In addition, first hand knowledge of all scriptures exposes the scope of editing, raises the issue of the accuracy of translations and the role of transcribers to add or subtract their own piety, as well as reveal the typical lies and deceits commonly employed by the pious against children in the name of some god, demonstrating the despicable practice of religious indoctrination by those who presume their own piety outweighs all else including the psychological health and welfare of children they profess to care for, and just how terribly sad and pernicious this condition is in practice for everyone involved.
That’s the ‘virtue’ of faith in action: harming real people in real life.
First hand understanding of scripture then helps explain why, and guard against, idiotic interpretations like CS’ that force him to substitute his pious beliefs in place of any respect for reality and what we might know is true about it, and exposes the deep psychological need the pious have to try to produce more believers rather than show any respect for seekers of what’s true.
Methinks ‘the virtue of faith in action’ is all the loot, pelf and power such faith generates. I often thought when young that I should perhaps have started either a religion of my own or at least a cult …
Ron Hubbard beat you too it. But I’m sure there’s room for another.
Why not? There are upwards of 30,000 Christian cults.
Have a vision and away you go.
Faith is driving with your eyes open, hoping the car coming at you in the opposite direction does not have a driver who intends on ending your life via head on collision. So you don’t have this faith?
Of course you do, and I am happy to correct your short sightedness.
Hello Ark. As I was never very religious I look at religion from the idea of knowledge. I think this sums up my position.
“I want to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible.”
– Matt Dillahunty
I value education, learning, understanding, and knowing the difference between reality and fantasy. I feel sorry for people like CS who are willing trapped in a fantasy and wont leave it even though it is clearly not reality. I think forcing a delusion such as religion on a child while denying them the known facts about reality is child abuse. I have read about homeschooled kids not being able to count, knowing nothing of history, and can not explain anything other than their religious doctrines because they spend all their school time memorizing bible passages using the interpretation of their parents. This denies them an education and a future. Hugs
I recommend that everyone read the Bible from cover to cover and ask (a) are the lessons giving a consistent message and (b) is the god being described behaving in a morally consistent manner. If the answer to either question is “no,” then ask what logical contortions religious leaders have to go through to try to make sense of it.
I think that when you are confronted with any passage in any book, be it a bible, a difficult classic, or a bit of dense prose, and you’re trying to figure out what the hell is going on (and no, sometimes synopses only make it worse), and the entire group of readers start to say things like, “I think what he means is…” and “as near as I can tell…” or “no no, that’s not it, if you read back a few paragraphs…’ you might as well just quietly pack up and leave. They don’t know either. And this is what I get from people who try to interpret the Bible for themselves and us unwashed heathens. They don’t know either.
A book written by er, a God, would be crystal clear. It should be not written, but engraved on our very souls, so that interpretaton is unnecessary. God’s word, not a translator’s. No need for conflicting accounts (two apostles, two accounts of Jesus’ birth) and guess work. No borrowing from every previous culture and stitching them together.
addendum: if there are/were gods, there are only two kinds, and no, you don’t get to choose. One is the authoritarian, “my way or you die” sort, and NO one wants one of those. And the other is the one who plunks you down and says, “there you go” and walks away. The Clint Eastwood director type.
You don’t have a choice, in fact you don’t even know there IS a choice.
The one we seem to have invented is a mess. He’s a loving, willful, pychopathic fruitcake who cannot decide if he loves us unconditionally (but only if we live up to his standards) until we forget to do what he wants us to do, (but that part only surfaces just after you’ve done the wrong thing that you didn’t know was wrong until he tells you…) and then he sweeps us off the planet. Hey, 40,000 sects can’t be wrong.
Hello Judy. Where do the Greek gods fit in then. They were filled with the passions and faults of mankind yet they really did not insist on total love, just a dalliance here and there. 😂🤣😁 Hugs
Let us neither forget nor disregard that the Great Works of the Prophets are intended to be read from cover to cover … and are deliberately created to be hypnotic. Especially the Koran. Try it, you’ll see what I mean.
The answer may lie in re-editing such books, to substitute the word ‘anus’ for ‘God’ (or any of His names) wherever they appear in the text.
If you survive to the end you — depending on whether or not you are a good hypnotic subject — may just find yourself a devout devotee of the Holy Anus …
I don’t subscribe to your blog any more, Ark, but I do visit occasionally, just to see what you’re posting that is of interest, and this one has drawn me in once again.
This video is typical because it’s unbelievably shallow it its approach to the Bible. Why did these young people not research their concerns before dismissing their ‘religion’? Why didn’t they try to work out what the Bible stories they were taught actually mean? I suspect they weren’t brought up with any degree of good expository Bible teaching and were subjected to a shallow, emotional and superficial understanding of their Book, and that’s one of the greatest problems with much of Western Christendom today, alongside the legalistic framework of Roman Catholicism.
How can William claim that ‘Religion is the biggest problem humanity faces’ when it clearly is not? He then goes on to say that ‘…if you question anything it offers you’re going to burn in hell for ever’, but Christianity is the greatest questioning belief system of them all. Some people abuse it, but modern science itself arose from the Christian world view.
Jackie ‘…rejected the idea of hell because it’s pretty stupid’, but did she try to work out what hell really is from its descriptions in the Bible or did she simply and unthinkingly rely on what she’d been taught by other people? And what does she mean by ‘stupid’? I could go on but I will be praying for these folks.
The video originates from TheThinkingAtheist, but at first glance I think it would be more appropriately named TheEmotionalAtheist.
I am pleased to say that these young people demonstrate far greater awareness of the bible and the problems associated with religion than you in your present indoctrinated state will ever be able to.
Your ignorance regarding the doctrine of Hell is a perfect example.
Furthermore, a simple reading of the way your god sent the flood and committed genocide should be enough for the average individual with only a smidgen of morality, let alone common sense, to realise that such a tale is fiction and also an act of a monster.
The Biblical doctrine of hell is everlasting absence from God, Ark. It’s as simple as that. The route to that absence is portrayed, mainly be Jesus Himself, as destroying fire, but some people interpret that as everlasting, conscious agony, but that’s not what’s described in the Bible. The fire may be everlasting but the everlasting torment of people within it is not described explicitly.
God can only be God if He has the power to destroy as well as create, so whilst hell must real so also must God’s prerogative to destroy life and bring about the death of His creatures on earth. The important thing is to work out God’s reasons for causing it, and an intelligent understanding of the instances in the Bible where genocide is commanded by God is essential.
The Biblical doctrine of hell is everlasting absence from God,
Yes, this is the prettied up version, but is not the version most Christians are/have been indoctrinated with.
You need to be a little more honest and at least learn your history.
Try Tertullian and Augustine.
The important thing is for people like you to at least try to embrace reality.
In the meantime please stay away from kids with this drivel.
Of course he did. Don’t be ridiculous!
Jesus was a Jew. Born a Jew, raised a Jew and died a Jew. And, according to the bible, even buried as a Jew.
The character certainly wasn’t an atheist now was he?
“This video is typical because it’s unbelievably shallow it its approach to the Bible.”
Ah yes, the shallowness of the critics. Tsk tsk. Not nearly ‘deep’ enough, which explains why it’s wrong. But I’m almost sure CumbriaDaydreamer will let us know when the appropriate depth has been achieved by critics.
Yeah, right!
So this response to any and all criticism of religion and/or religious belief is even more tedious, tendentious, and typical: it’s the old Lacking Sophistication reflex response from apologists so that everything critical and honest can be dismissed by the believer with a god-sanctioned wave of the hand.
How very, very deep.
Using this tired apologetic tactic is just another demonstration of the never-ending depth of hubris that religious believers can disburse, utterly oblivious and/or uncaring of the level of sanctimony they present.
I know the faithful rarely encounter this charge without immediately shrugging it off but in reality the important point being raised is that it really does require a lack of knowledge (ignorance) to have such hubris. Rather than shrug off the criticism as an ad hominem, I wish the believer would ask the honest question, “How is this (whatever) hubris?” Only then would some actual learning take place and the Q & A exchange carry some value. It would show a lack of hubris to honestly ask the question, which is why it seems to almost never happen!
Hmmm … I will read some of the links he has posted, but on the face of it he still seems as slippery as ever.
As I am banned from his blog ….. Watch this space ….
I know lots of people who have moved away from the religion in which they once members but have since become firmly fixed in their own new and improved version. I feel UncleE falls very much into this latter category.
Yes, bit of a switch and bait sort of thing.
Who would have thought UnkleE would have been prone to semantics etc?
😉
”I am definitely not religious, I just follow Jesus … who was a Jew. But later, Jesus converted to Christianity, so that’s why I am a Christian, too. Just like Jesus.”
I don’t know if he’ll completely deconvert, but the fact that he is thinking things through and willing to shift his beliefs away from the church’s indoctrination is a great step. There’s hope for everybody!
A Tale Unfolds 
A circle of nonsense.
True.
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True true. Religion is devastating. Imagine if we all collaborated in real terms instead of dragging all that dead weight? We have the capacity to be incredible!
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Brilliant because u agree with it ark, but certainly not brilliant in its truthfulness.
The young knowitall male complained about his distaste for ‘stories,’ yet failed to mention one of these ‘stories’ that he finds repulsive.
Maybe I can help him. Joseph sold into slavery was damaging? Jonah’s argument with God regarding another nation? Herod plotting with Pilate was yet another ‘story?’
Don’t think so. The young misfits have one thing in common and it is not intellect, but what scripture so accurately presents about THEM, and this is the singular bane that weaves the threads of all decons.
I found their arguments weak and boring not brilliant.
LikeLiked by 1 person
he didn’t mention one of them, CS, because all of them are object lessons, fairy tales, something made up as guidance, but not necessarily real, no more than Red Riding Hood or the Three Little Pigs, or any other story that distinguishes right and wrong. And that’s all they are.
You have your way, sir, and we have ours.
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CS,
This artifact (a Roman Imperial Sceptre) found in 2006-2007 at Palatine Hill:
These imperial sceptres were usually covered in gold-plating or sheets and the globe at the top was BLUE-GREEN representing Earth and “Augustus,” the title of all Roman Emperators after Gaius Octavius Thurinus. The point is that at least as far back as 312 CE all Roman educated aristocracy/senators and most parts of the Empire to the east KNEW back then that our planet was/is completely spherical. Fyi… if you can wrap your tiny pea-brain around that. 🙂
LikeLiked by 2 people
Here’s the link and picture of that Imperial sceptre:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1544019/Sceptre-from-Roman-emperor-exhibited.html
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Not sure of the relevance AT ALL prof of your comment here. So I’ll not take your bait to steer a post into the weeds where you will choke by your own ignorance.
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Spoken by the master of irrelevant comments. You’ve yet to demonstrate relevance, accuracy, or coherency with any of your comments.
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Did he really need to? How about the Flood,or Sodom and Gomorrah,
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Doesn’t it trouble u ark that the world is 75% water?
And that the water stops- when unabated- at the shore line?
Are u aware of the sheer volume and weight of rain, and the fact that water drops FALLING from above…….lucky for you that it doesn’t fall in sheets- u would be crushed under the weight.
Water speaks for itself. Of course there was a Deluge, what’s the problem?
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As you will inevitably spew out some rhetorical nonsense about ants and gods, there is little point in discussing this with you.
As you have no desire whatsoever to even try to understand the science behind it I won’t waste any further ”ink”.
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Excellent video!
Freedom from religion must feel exhilarating to those who have been buried under its negative influence. Luckily I never had to experience that and feel sorry for those who are still trapped.
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I never felt trapped by my religion, and I just sort of drifted away from it. But I will admit life without church every Sunday and sermons and thou shalt and thou shalt not is quite delightful. My way, my choice. It’s empowering.
LikeLiked by 4 people
But what scripture ‘so’ accurately, not ‘do.’ Fix please/ and Tkx for not butchering the comment-
I do the same for u-
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Always great advice: read the source material. I still think there is no greater argument against all forms of religious belief than their selected scriptures themselves.
In addition, first hand knowledge of all scriptures exposes the scope of editing, raises the issue of the accuracy of translations and the role of transcribers to add or subtract their own piety, as well as reveal the typical lies and deceits commonly employed by the pious against children in the name of some god, demonstrating the despicable practice of religious indoctrination by those who presume their own piety outweighs all else including the psychological health and welfare of children they profess to care for, and just how terribly sad and pernicious this condition is in practice for everyone involved.
That’s the ‘virtue’ of faith in action: harming real people in real life.
First hand understanding of scripture then helps explain why, and guard against, idiotic interpretations like CS’ that force him to substitute his pious beliefs in place of any respect for reality and what we might know is true about it, and exposes the deep psychological need the pious have to try to produce more believers rather than show any respect for seekers of what’s true.
LikeLiked by 6 people
Oh my…I just looked at CS’s blog.
Me thinks thou protests too much.
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Methinks ‘the virtue of faith in action’ is all the loot, pelf and power such faith generates. I often thought when young that I should perhaps have started either a religion of my own or at least a cult …
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I’d have you as my pack leader any day! Woof!
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Ron Hubbard beat you too it. But I’m sure there’s room for another.
Why not? There are upwards of 30,000 Christian cults.
Have a vision and away you go.
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Reblogged this on notestoponder.
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Definitely worth sharing this.
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“When someone proclaims that they are a man of faith, they should be ashamed; it is like driving with your eyes closed.”
Brilliant observation.
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How about this:
Faith is driving with your eyes open, hoping the car coming at you in the opposite direction does not have a driver who intends on ending your life via head on collision. So you don’t have this faith?
Of course you do, and I am happy to correct your short sightedness.
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Hello Ark. As I was never very religious I look at religion from the idea of knowledge. I think this sums up my position.
– Matt Dillahunty
I value education, learning, understanding, and knowing the difference between reality and fantasy. I feel sorry for people like CS who are willing trapped in a fantasy and wont leave it even though it is clearly not reality. I think forcing a delusion such as religion on a child while denying them the known facts about reality is child abuse. I have read about homeschooled kids not being able to count, knowing nothing of history, and can not explain anything other than their religious doctrines because they spend all their school time memorizing bible passages using the interpretation of their parents. This denies them an education and a future. Hugs
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Hello Ark. Something happened where the quote did not close. Sorry, can you do a quick edit on it for me. After Dillahunty’s name. Thanks. Hugs
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Done. All Praise to the god, WordPress Edit Facility.
Be at peace. There is no need to slaughter a goat.
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I recommend that everyone read the Bible from cover to cover and ask (a) are the lessons giving a consistent message and (b) is the god being described behaving in a morally consistent manner. If the answer to either question is “no,” then ask what logical contortions religious leaders have to go through to try to make sense of it.
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Excellent advice.
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I think that when you are confronted with any passage in any book, be it a bible, a difficult classic, or a bit of dense prose, and you’re trying to figure out what the hell is going on (and no, sometimes synopses only make it worse), and the entire group of readers start to say things like, “I think what he means is…” and “as near as I can tell…” or “no no, that’s not it, if you read back a few paragraphs…’ you might as well just quietly pack up and leave. They don’t know either. And this is what I get from people who try to interpret the Bible for themselves and us unwashed heathens. They don’t know either.
A book written by er, a God, would be crystal clear. It should be not written, but engraved on our very souls, so that interpretaton is unnecessary. God’s word, not a translator’s. No need for conflicting accounts (two apostles, two accounts of Jesus’ birth) and guess work. No borrowing from every previous culture and stitching them together.
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A-Women!!!
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t’ank you, t’ank you.
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addendum: if there are/were gods, there are only two kinds, and no, you don’t get to choose. One is the authoritarian, “my way or you die” sort, and NO one wants one of those. And the other is the one who plunks you down and says, “there you go” and walks away. The Clint Eastwood director type.
You don’t have a choice, in fact you don’t even know there IS a choice.
The one we seem to have invented is a mess. He’s a loving, willful, pychopathic fruitcake who cannot decide if he loves us unconditionally (but only if we live up to his standards) until we forget to do what he wants us to do, (but that part only surfaces just after you’ve done the wrong thing that you didn’t know was wrong until he tells you…) and then he sweeps us off the planet. Hey, 40,000 sects can’t be wrong.
Mein gott, I just described my father.
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Hello Judy. Where do the Greek gods fit in then. They were filled with the passions and faults of mankind yet they really did not insist on total love, just a dalliance here and there. 😂🤣😁 Hugs
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Let us neither forget nor disregard that the Great Works of the Prophets are intended to be read from cover to cover … and are deliberately created to be hypnotic. Especially the Koran. Try it, you’ll see what I mean.
The answer may lie in re-editing such books, to substitute the word ‘anus’ for ‘God’ (or any of His names) wherever they appear in the text.
If you survive to the end you — depending on whether or not you are a good hypnotic subject — may just find yourself a devout devotee of the Holy Anus …
LikeLiked by 1 person
I don’t subscribe to your blog any more, Ark, but I do visit occasionally, just to see what you’re posting that is of interest, and this one has drawn me in once again.
This video is typical because it’s unbelievably shallow it its approach to the Bible. Why did these young people not research their concerns before dismissing their ‘religion’? Why didn’t they try to work out what the Bible stories they were taught actually mean? I suspect they weren’t brought up with any degree of good expository Bible teaching and were subjected to a shallow, emotional and superficial understanding of their Book, and that’s one of the greatest problems with much of Western Christendom today, alongside the legalistic framework of Roman Catholicism.
How can William claim that ‘Religion is the biggest problem humanity faces’ when it clearly is not? He then goes on to say that ‘…if you question anything it offers you’re going to burn in hell for ever’, but Christianity is the greatest questioning belief system of them all. Some people abuse it, but modern science itself arose from the Christian world view.
Jackie ‘…rejected the idea of hell because it’s pretty stupid’, but did she try to work out what hell really is from its descriptions in the Bible or did she simply and unthinkingly rely on what she’d been taught by other people? And what does she mean by ‘stupid’? I could go on but I will be praying for these folks.
The video originates from TheThinkingAtheist, but at first glance I think it would be more appropriately named TheEmotionalAtheist.
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I am pleased to say that these young people demonstrate far greater awareness of the bible and the problems associated with religion than you in your present indoctrinated state will ever be able to.
Your ignorance regarding the doctrine of Hell is a perfect example.
Furthermore, a simple reading of the way your god sent the flood and committed genocide should be enough for the average individual with only a smidgen of morality, let alone common sense, to realise that such a tale is fiction and also an act of a monster.
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The Biblical doctrine of hell is everlasting absence from God, Ark. It’s as simple as that. The route to that absence is portrayed, mainly be Jesus Himself, as destroying fire, but some people interpret that as everlasting, conscious agony, but that’s not what’s described in the Bible. The fire may be everlasting but the everlasting torment of people within it is not described explicitly.
God can only be God if He has the power to destroy as well as create, so whilst hell must real so also must God’s prerogative to destroy life and bring about the death of His creatures on earth. The important thing is to work out God’s reasons for causing it, and an intelligent understanding of the instances in the Bible where genocide is commanded by God is essential.
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Yes, this is the prettied up version, but is not the version most Christians are/have been indoctrinated with.
You need to be a little more honest and at least learn your history.
Try Tertullian and Augustine.
The important thing is for people like you to at least try to embrace reality.
In the meantime please stay away from kids with this drivel.
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You’re absolutely right; religion is a mess. Jesus, on the other hand is not.
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Jesus came about because of religion.
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… or so you believe.
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Of course he did. Don’t be ridiculous!
Jesus was a Jew. Born a Jew, raised a Jew and died a Jew. And, according to the bible, even buried as a Jew.
The character certainly wasn’t an atheist now was he?
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“This video is typical because it’s unbelievably shallow it its approach to the Bible.”
Ah yes, the shallowness of the critics. Tsk tsk. Not nearly ‘deep’ enough, which explains why it’s wrong. But I’m almost sure CumbriaDaydreamer will let us know when the appropriate depth has been achieved by critics.
Yeah, right!
So this response to any and all criticism of religion and/or religious belief is even more tedious, tendentious, and typical: it’s the old Lacking Sophistication reflex response from apologists so that everything critical and honest can be dismissed by the believer with a god-sanctioned wave of the hand.
How very, very deep.
Using this tired apologetic tactic is just another demonstration of the never-ending depth of hubris that religious believers can disburse, utterly oblivious and/or uncaring of the level of sanctimony they present.
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Hubris that is only ever surpassed by their ignorance.
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I know the faithful rarely encounter this charge without immediately shrugging it off but in reality the important point being raised is that it really does require a lack of knowledge (ignorance) to have such hubris. Rather than shrug off the criticism as an ad hominem, I wish the believer would ask the honest question, “How is this (whatever) hubris?” Only then would some actual learning take place and the Q & A exchange carry some value. It would show a lack of hubris to honestly ask the question, which is why it seems to almost never happen!
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And it seems that those who do ask will, more often than not, deconvert.
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On the topic of “farewell to faith”, it looks as if UnkleE is deconverting:
Losing my religion
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Hmmm … I will read some of the links he has posted, but on the face of it he still seems as slippery as ever.
As I am banned from his blog ….. Watch this space ….
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Being slippery is perhaps part of his nature.
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I know lots of people who have moved away from the religion in which they once members but have since become firmly fixed in their own new and improved version. I feel UncleE falls very much into this latter category.
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Which suggests he is still indoctrinated.
In his case especially, this line from Life of Brian rings true:
”He’s making it up as he goes along.”
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I’m reading the links as I type. Just read his take on Nate’s story. No, Unk is not deconverting.
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Yes, reading his post more carefully, it seems that he is dechurching but not deconverting.
He says he is leaving religion. But he still identifies with the Jesus tribe, so that’s not really leaving religion.
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Yes, bit of a switch and bait sort of thing.
Who would have thought UnkleE would have been prone to semantics etc?
😉
”I am definitely not religious, I just follow Jesus … who was a Jew. But later, Jesus converted to Christianity, so that’s why I am a Christian, too. Just like Jesus.”
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WHAT??!!? Jesus “converted to Christianity” … ??? Oh. My. Thor. I must have missed something along the way …
BTW, what’s with all the theme changes? Variety is the spice of life?
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Indeed it is.
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I don’t know if he’ll completely deconvert, but the fact that he is thinking things through and willing to shift his beliefs away from the church’s indoctrination is a great step. There’s hope for everybody!
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