Oh, for gods’ sake.

A post about disability included a paragraph about a Christian and former drug addict who approached a blind person on the train and asked for permission to pray that his sight may be restored. The Christian claimed that praying to his god was directly responsible for his own ”healing”

This prompted my response.

I’ll give you the link if you really want to read the entire article.

 

To my mind there is a profound arrogance from Christians who claim to have been ‘healed’ by the power of prayer, especially when one notes that the problems (illnesses, disease etc) such people have/once had invariably involve an emotional/psychological component as well as the physical.
While addiction to drugs and alcohol, for example, most definitely does have debilitating physical aspects a definite part of recovery from these addictions is ”in the mind”.
And what about those former addicts who cleaned up without supposed Divine Intervention?

My tobacco addiction for example.

Intercessory prayer has been demonstrated to be a fruitless endeavour and has never produced a positive result that could be directly attributed.
In fact, the Templeton Foundation sponsored the largest intercessory prayer program to date involving Christians and hospital patients. Not only was the program an abject failure in terms of its objective but the health of a number of patients who were aware they were being prayed for actually deteriorated. Couldn’t live up to expectations I imagine!

When you consider how many millions of children under five that die that each year from preventable diseases and how many of their parents are religious and prayed to the point of likely becoming ill themselves, certainly traumatized, it makes you wonder why on earth anyone would be so credulous to believe that such action would make a blind bit of difference?

I also wonder how many British soldiers returning from Afghanistan with missing limbs have witnessed a leg or two suddenly grow back after a former drug-addled Christian tapped them on the shoulder and asked if they could pray for them ?

To extend the point of just how ridiculous prayer is, no doubt Spurs’ striker, Lucas Moura will be praying to the Christian god that, as in the semi-finals, he scores another hat trick when they face Liverpool on Saturday in the Champions League final.
Which might annoy Liverpool striker, Mo Salah a bit as his god will no doubt be in Spain watching the final as well.

Pointless, as we all know that Yahweh/Jesus is a Manchester City supporter, and this is why they did the English Treble this year. Furthermore, we all know that Mo’s god is not real, right?
Of course it’s true. Ask Man City’s manager, Pep Guardiola !

But probably the most insidious aspect is the fact religious leaders and those in charge of congregations actively encourage this practice, knowing full well that, all over the planet millions are dying or becoming physically crippled because it seems their god was either unable or unwilling to intervene to help/save them.
Truth be told, such religious leaders are in all likelihood fully aware just how meaningless the gesture of prayer really is.

Ark

 


53 thoughts on “Oh, for gods’ sake.

  1. I have two words for you … wishful thinking. Lots and lots and lots of it. We want this ability so bad we fake results being based upon prayers rather than medical professionals, etc.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. I lied to a patient one time. I’d picked this guy up on the street more times than I can count. Finally I said “Randy, I sure hope you can get better or your going to die. I understand how hard this is because I used to be in your shoes. I lost my wife, kids, job, everything and was living on the street just like you. You can do this man! You have the power to whip this addiction. I got help. I got into treatment and got my life back. Went back to school and now I have a wife again and a good job. You can do this man!”
    This was a moment of hope for him. He got treatment and his life back together. This is the power of faith, and none of what I told him was true about me, but it was true about him. This is where the healing power is Right inside of us. Despair can ruin our desires. This life can be very tough on people, but ultimately they need to believe someone actually cares about them. Religion plays on this weakness.

    Liked by 7 people

      1. Exactly. It works. People will pay dearly to have hope. Challenging their faith is an affront to hope. Why else do you think it triggers a fight or flight response?

        Liked by 1 person

  3. Yes, and I think if I were to try to put myself in God’s place and – assuming I could cope with the millions of prayers said by people around the world every second of every day – I would take a similar view of most of their requests. Interesting post, Ark.

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      1. … unless He knows more than you or I do. And I certainly hope He does because He wouldn’t be God if He didn’t.

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        1. Ah … so there is a reason why he allows millions of kids to die from preventable diseases – or in fact causes them to die as he …oops He made all the diseases as well,of course, and refuses to regenerate limbs for amputees, even when devout Christians pray until their fillings fall out?
          Yeah, now there’s a god you want to work for!

          Liked by 2 people

  4. … unless He knows more than you or I do. Didn’t you read me right the first time?

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    1. Oh, I read it perfectly , thank you. What could he possibly know that would make him cause the unnecessary deaths of millions of children? You’re a Christian. At least have a guess.

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    2. Really? That’s your excuse? So God allows all these children to suffer or die because he apparently has something else planned? Like he could still do that thing and not have all these people die?

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  5. Why do atheists complain about the deaths of infants but not of the unborn, and why do they complain about the deaths of infants but not the deaths of old people? It seems to be an unfair approach to me.

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    1. Why do Christians act with such cowardice and hypocritical effrontery whenever anyone questions the actions of their god?
      Please don’t sidestep the question. Have a go at answering it.
      Again.
      Why does your god allow at least 5 million kids under five to die each year from preventable diseases – diseases He created (according to Christians)?
      And He can’t even use the excuse of free will in this case, now can he?
      What is his reason, if He has one?

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    2. Why does anyone anywhere anytime ever complain about death, doom, defeat, despair and disaster? These are all part of God’s Great Plan — ordained by Him personally, no?

      Please answer … I genuinely want a response. So many avoid this question and serve Satan by leaving me in the dark …

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I’ll continue to leave you in the dark in that case because I’ve already tried to help you to think your question through. If God wants to grant us freedom to act and think as we wish then He has also granted us freedom to experience the consequences of our actions. Should he allow us to invent the bicycle and then prevent us from falling off it? If all was sweetness and light on this earth we wouldn’t be human would we? If there wasn’t such a thing as pain there could be no perception of pleasure. The one can’t happen without the other. However, God has promised us the ultimate pleasure – to be in His presence for ever if we believe in Him. If you don’t fancy that prospect then you’ll be granted your wish. Goodnight.

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        1. Being granted freedom to act does not answer the initial question regarding God’s seemingly wanton act of allowing millions of under fives’ to die from preventable diseases. Diseases HE created.

          Your failure to provide an honest answer tells us plainly that, because of your ignorance and arrogance you are forced to resort to dancing the Theological Two-Step thus illustrating the hypocrisy you display every single time you comment.

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          1. How am I supposed to know? Do you think the suffering doesn’t bother me and other Christians? Read John Lennox on the topic; it’s the one aspect of his belief he finds most disturbing and problematic. I ask you to provide an alternative view other than ‘Shit happens, get over it’, but you’ll give me nothing. All we can do is think it through and do our best to alleviate such unnecessary pain and suffering. Think about viruses and their vital job in nature. If viruses didn’t exist neither would life. Should God have designed viruses so they wouldn’t infect people? If they didn’t infect people should they also not infect our pets either? And then if they didn’t infect our pets should they be prevented from infecting our food chain? Where should God draw the line? At least Jesus offers hope to those who suffer and die as infants; atheism offers nothing.

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          2. I didn’t say I expected you to know the answer, for who knows the mind of God?

            I did suggest that God could have created humans that were immune to such diseases.
            But he didn’t. Fair enough.
            Therefore, I merely ask for your best guess as to why God allows so many millions of under 5 children to die every single year from preventable diseases – diseases that HE created.
            This has nothing to do with human ”sin” or any lack of ”morality” or disobeying God’s laws.
            So,once again , what do YOU think is the reason God allows these kids to die?

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          3. I think God allows children to die because He gives us freedom, the freedom to do good as well as evil. Jesus did miracles, but He didn’t perform them for His own benefit, they were almost always to heal and restore other people. He commanded His followers to do the same, and while children suffer and die there will always be the same challenge to humanity to do good. I think God allows children to suffer and die in order to make us aware of our own mortality. It would be crazy if the life of every child was guaranteed up to a certain age. What age would it be and at what point in life would we suddenly become mortal? Finally I think God allows children to die because He has a far greater future for them in His presence. If this world is all there is, it’s a futile, cruel place, but if God exists, so does real hope through Jesus. Read John Lennox on the topic.

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          4. CDD — Do you realize that if you took “God” out of the picture, everything you said/asked would be the same? Things are what they are. Good and bad things happen. People are born. People die. Some people are good. Some people aren’t. Some people suffer through life. Others seem to live a “charmed” life.

            This is all part of LIVING as a human being.

            No God needed.

            Liked by 3 people

          5. I agree, Nan, if you look at it like that, and that’s the natural way to see things, but is it true? I hope you are more concerned about what’s true than what you feel or want.

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          6. I think God allows children to suffer and die in order to make us aware of our own mortality

            The fact that we are destined to die as we run out of life is evidence of our mortality. We don’t need further evidence.
            Your explanation merely confirms the view that your god – were he to be real- is nothing but a sadistic monster.
            But thank you for at least having a guess.
            Sadly it confirms that you are as delusional and a little sick in the head as we all suspect.
            And as much asI Ioathe religion I am sure I am not alone in the belief that you sincerely need professional help, Cumbria.

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          7. As I’ve said many times before, you offer the world no hope whatsoever beyond this transient life. You don’t even have a clue how life began or why we have to die at all (ie, why we age), so I’m not sure what makes you think I’m the one who needs professional help. Maybe ignorance is bliss as far as you’re concerned; that’s how you come across to me anyway.

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          8. You need professional help for a couple of prime reasons.
            You believe that you are so special to the exclusion of several billion non-Christians and also several billion Christians who just happen to not believe the way you do that, your god has a little spot in a place called heaven just for you. And to prove it, he came to earth and allowed himself to be a human sacrifice and was unnecessarily and brutally crucified to forgive all your sins as a sign of his sincerity.
            And you accept all this because you have been indoctrinated based on a text that is riddled with error from start to finish..
            THAT’s why you should seek professional help.

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          9. you offer the world no hope whatsoever beyond this transient life That’s because this “transient life” is all we have, contrary to your misguided beliefs.

            Why live for something beyond the grave — especially when you have absolutely NO proof that such a life even exists? NOW … at this moment … you have THIS life. Carpe Diem! And let tomorrow take care of itself.

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        2. See? THIS is the problem … If God wants. When there is NO indication of a god except in the minds of believers, then it matters little “what God wants.”

          Liked by 2 people

        3. CUM:

          you used the ‘if’ word.

          Ain’t no ifs for God, all is permanently in place, already, as has been since before He created everything. I say again: pity God, for alone in the universe He can never perform a spontaneous act.

          (For you heathens and doubters I’ll spell it out: God has no ‘Free Will’. None, Zilch. Not even the illusion thereof …

          Liked by 2 people

  6. When Christians offer to pray for me, I tell them not to and instead to simply give me money. I’ve found oddly enough, that money, unlike prayer, actually increases your ability to do things in direct proportion to the amount you have. Funny that.

    Liked by 3 people

  7. Sidestepping is done by both sides every time. God allows EVERYBODY to die and that’s my point. God’s reason as laid out in the Bible is man’s sin, not only man’s individual sin but the corporate sins of humanity. It’s exemplified by the Adam & Eve story, and whether we believe that as an account of real events or allegorical doesn’t make any difference to the way Christians interpret the problem of suffering.

    So, let me put my question in another way. Would God be fair if He prevented ANY child from dying? If so He would have to prevent millions of abortions each year. And equally, where would He draw the line between prevention and allowance? What would His age limit be? You can’t use the infant mortality rates due to ‘natural’ causes to claim God doesn’t exist because such logic is an oxymoron.

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    1. Would God be fair if He prevented ANY child from dying?

      From preventable diseases He created?
      Well, he could simply have created humans with genes that were immune to such diseases.

      You can’t use the infant mortality rates due to ‘natural’ causes to claim God doesn’t exist because such logic is an oxymoron.

      I’m not. I am assuming for the sake of this argument that your god exists. It is on this basis we are trying to fathom His motivation for allowing 5 million plus kids under 5 to die from preventable diseases.
      From an outsider’s perspective He comes across as a callous monster.
      What I am also trying to establish here is what you believe is His reason for allowing all these children to die unnecessarily.

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    2. God allows EVERYBODY to die … Gosh a’mighty! He ALLOWS it? Does that mean that if I pray and pray and pray that I don’t have to die? Geez! That would be pretty awesome. (And no … I’m NOT talking about the “heavenly life.”)

      I think I may write a book on all the excuses and rationalizations that Christians make for their god. Then again, it would probably be so long readers would give up before the end.

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    3. God doesn’t allow everybody to die—God makes everybody die.
      As the unique Prime Mover of the universe He’s the unique ultimately responsible.

      Don’t forget now, that The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away … frankly, given His abilities I’d have done a better job myself …

      Liked by 1 person

    1. On every sunken ship in the history of the world, the prayers of the faithful were muffled by the sounds of drowning—In his wisdom, of course.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. ….. and the band played on.
        Like so many of the faithful,dear Old Cumbria peppers the post with arse- backward comments that are like pigeon shit splattering a freshly cleaned windscreen

        Liked by 1 person

          1. Eventually one has to trade their integrity for belief. Vehement opposition but defunding programs that support women and children is where they are. Starving and dying children is acceptable as gods wisdoms they let it be. How is abortion any different?

            Liked by 2 people

  8. “I’ll pray for you” is impossible to respond to negatively without sounding ungrateful. I just smile vaguely. They think it helps, I know it doesn’t, but there are times when the argument is out of place.
    Maybe the secret is not mouthing platitudes but telling or giving someone what they need to hear or have, not what YOU think they need. Even if it messes with your own immortal soul to Tell A Lie. it’s what works, that counts, sometimes. You don’t pray for a hungry man, you buy him lunch, for heaven’s sake.

    My great-aunt Jennie was a Benedictine nun, and the goal of her order (which was a contemplative, cloistered Order) was to pray for peace, and for the end of communism. They cared for wayward girls, as well, but their main goal was to end communism. I hope she lived long enough to see it actually end, even though we all know her prayers had little to do with it.

    Nod and smile, nod and smile.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Letting them pray for you is simple charity. Costs nothing but makes them feel better.

      In the meantime, keep on popping them pills … and many a doctor has smiled kindly when the godly claim the credit on behalf of someone who reputedly was too unmiraculous to save himself (let alone the entirety of mankind).

      If anyone needs praying for I’d say it’s dupes who lack the tools with which to think for themselves~?

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      1. Is it really charity?
        What if they came to the door and asked to come inside and pray for you?
        And once inside perhaps it would be okay if you joined them kneeling prayer?
        Or maybe accompanied them to their church to have them pray for you?

        Ah, sod it … let’s all convert and be damned, and when we get accosted by Muslims let’s convert to Islam as well.

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        1. I used to invite them in, until I realised that there was no-one home …

          But I guarantee that not everybody has had Mormons suddenly gasp in horror, look at each other, then as one grab up all their ‘teaching tools’ and run almost screaming out the door … I have.

          Felt good, too. But these days I don’t bother with door-nuts. Same old, same old. I just smile sweetly and tell them I’m Islamic, then I invite them in. It gets rid of ’em.

          Liked by 2 people

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