81 thoughts on “For believers …

      1. Hello CS, it is clear you are not open to logic or intelligent conversation on the authenticity of your god, but you have some awareness of people who have investigated the so called facts you preach and have discovered you are wrong, therefore in the name of truth why do you not try to clear your head (if that is possible) by also reading the non-Christian points of view and do some real investigation of your own?

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Open to logic steve?

          Only in the world of the illogical would a fool think the creature has more intelligence than He who created the brain.

          The questions asked of men by He who holds all answers are far more pressing than any modern you toober, such as

          Where were you when the lines were stretch out upon the earth? Which of you can measure the waters beneath or the heavens above?

          Now then, go ahead and prove yourself the fool by pretending to represent logic.

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          1. Where were you …. Yes, good question, CS. As in, where were YOU? Did YOU see it being done?

            Oh! Oh! Let me answer that one!

            No. You weren’t there. You read about it. And that obviously makes it true.

            BTW, CS, will Santa be visiting you this year? What? You say Santa isn’t real? Wow! Imagine that.

            Liked by 2 people

          2. It is obvious from the implication nan, that these are answers in which ALL men fall short in intelligence. That’s the point. The creatures such as Darwin the liar, Degrasse the clown, and Nye the fool, are nothing but embarrassing when comparted to the Creator.

            As to your SantaClaus………really? I never knew one person who was converted to the great Claus, nor have I read one verse of history that asserts Claus made gold, coal, wood, water, or male and female.

            Your comment nan is equally embarrassing. There is no other source material on earth that speaks with the truth of scripture. Sad thing is, you know it.

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          3. There is no other source material on earth that speaks with the truth of scripture.

            “Scripture,” as you call it, is nothing more than a book written for an illiterate and ignorant people to help them make sense of a scary world. And since you believe it, what does that say about you?

            All you need do is substitute “Santa” for “God” and you have the same amount of truth.

            Liked by 5 people

          4. Yeah ok nan, and any semblance of credibility you may have had is gone.

            Try substituting Santa for God to your own shame. Oh how you must despise scripture which exposes every kind of fraud.

            The law was given through Moses, grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

            Truly a satanic deception to invoke the clause with the only living God.

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          5. A fictitious ”law” written by unknown men and created for a fictitious person, passed on to more men who invented another fictitious person.
            Welcome to the World of the Bible. Make believe and lies at their finest.

            Liked by 1 person

          6. All you need do is substitute “Santa” for “God” and you have the same amount of truth.

            Less… Santa brings pressies, and you don’t even have to kill a goat to get them!
            Seriously, how cool is that?

            Jingle Bells, Yahweh Smells …
            tra la la …

            🙂

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          7. Nice try ron, you do get points for the attempt, poor as it is.

            It has been stated recently by SCIENTISTS……………that the so-called learned ones know .00000333729475% of what lies beneath the surface of the world’s waters.

            And of course I am being extremely generous with these numbers. 😉 😉

            As to what is ABOVE us (yes, sorry to say, there is an up, as well as a down….) they are perhaps even more clueless, so yeah, your answer is perfect coming from the mind numbing arrogance of the atheistic worlview.

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          8. CS, Your question asked “which of you can measure . . . ?” — not “which of you has completed measuring . . .”

            the so-called learned ones know .00000333729475% [sic] of what lies beneath the surface of the world’s waters.

            Citation needed. But even if true, (which it’s not, in light of your statement “I am being extremely generous with these numbers”) it would be still constitute 0.00000333729475% more knowledge than a religious fanatic could discover via prayer alone.

            As for being clueless, we have high resolutions maps of the entire lunar surface, as well as the inner four planets. Here’s a link to one of the lunar north pole:

            http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/images/gigapan/

            And our current cosmological knowledge definitely supersedes that of the NT character named Jesus, who opined the stars would fall from the sky.

            Liked by 1 person

          9. What is this a trick question john.

            Is what correct? Is it my fault people have taken extreme liberties to mock scripture?

            Btw, even, ‘the wrath of man praises God.’ So even in this pic, Golgotha’s hill has been referred to, so in this thank you.

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      2. Talkin about yourself man?
        Which of the 99 bibles = fairytale-books do you believe in CS?, ah: and one is even written by maria magdalena, jesus’ spouse he had a daughter with-.
        Your logic is ever soo brilliant: As you actually have no proof for your tales, you try to tell us that – which one of the 99 fairytale- books was it ? – that a book, written just by some no-ones – that appear no-where in History, is containing gods truth?
        That is, why they thought the earth is flat and everything they could see; was centered around the earth.
        You believe in fiction, congrats, No man the bible is not the words of god, it is the words of stupid cruel, that just happend to be able to write, – nothing else – any little child can do this today .
        I will usely not read Job or the genesis, as I am long out of the the age, when I read fairytales.
        None of them writers of ALL of the Religions did have had the knowledge of mathematics and physics, that scientists do have today: Their knowledge than was nearly nothing compared to today. They didnt have any knowledge of really big Numbers like Billions and Trillions. And they of course didn’t have “numbercrushing” machines – computers, being able to crush algebraic equations that men were unable to solve in many lives. The had not invented toilet-paper, nor did they know, how to irrigate their dry fields
        And even Inequalities are a means of todays mathematicians and physicists, for instance, to compare dimensions.
        The Universe is 13,5+ Billion years old and that the universe contains some Trillion planets; the means of todays matematicians and physicist are necessary to talk about facts and not about fairytales as the 99 bibles – and you do do.
        All this could not be known to any fairytalewriter in olden times. so here we have the reasons – true reasons for the nonsense, they tried to convince people of, that of course couldn’t write themselves. So the listeners had to belive, what they heard from those sharlatans that you believe in, until today.

        Liked by 1 person

    1. LoL I was just thinking the same thing, I would not know where to find such entertainment. The serious part is these people pass the BS on to children.

      Liked by 1 person

  1. After checking out Kenneth Humphreys I see he has made it his life’s work to try to discredit the Bible. He’s not the first and won’t be the last, and a very cursory glance at his website suggests to me that most of his work is already old-hat. It makes me wonder why. It also puzzles me why some people who are Westerners – prosperous and intelligent – are unable to see that their very wealth and intelligence exist as a result of the Christian culture into which they were born and nurtured. They appear to want to destroy what, to them, is a false religion, but they have no idea what to replace it with. Science just doesn’t cut the mustard when we consider the nature of people.

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    1. After checking out Kenneth Humphreys I see he has made it his life’s work to try to discredit the Bible.

      The bible is already discredited among secular scholars and historians – its claims are silly and nothing but geopolitical myth.
      Humphries is just bringing to a wider audience what most professionals have known for what seems like forever.

      That their very wealth and intelligence exist as a result of the Christian culture into which they were born and nurtured

      Is this after the centuries of pillage and genocide in the name of one god or another?

      Secularism is already replacing religion and will continue to do so.
      Look at the statistics.

      And I notice you did not tackle any of the examples of biblical nonsense that science has shown to be nothing but myth / fiction?
      Why not? Are you afraid to deal with this reality?

      Liked by 5 people

      1. I think if you look at the worldwide, history-wide statistics you’ll discover a different scenario. And if you look at the right statistics you might discover that secularism isn’t quite the utopia you hope it is. Humanity does the pillage and genocide, sometimes in the name of one god or another, but the real god behind it is usually more physical factors such as resources, power or land.

        Science, for all its worth, doesn’t show that the Bible is myth or fiction. Humans do that in the light of their science. What I would need is proof, and science certainly doesn’t provide that. Evidence maybe, but proof is what I would need in order to abandon my faith in the God of the Bible.

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        1. “And if you look at the right statistics you might discover that secularism isn’t quite the utopia you hope it is.”

          And religion is? Christianity has had its day in the sun, nothing remains forever and it is about time all religions were seen and understood for exactly what they are.

          “Science, for all its worth, doesn’t show that the Bible is myth or fiction.”

          You have to be living in dream world. Science has already proven the Bible is mostly BS and even a large percentage of scripture is either a forgery or at best being altered over the many hundreds of copies made over many hundreds of years and was written by unknown or fictional writers.

          “What I would need is proof, and science certainly doesn’t provide that. Evidence maybe, but proof is what I would need in order to abandon my faith in the God of the Bible.”

          Good evidence and enough of it does prove something, you just have to apply yourself to look for it, I understand it may be difficult to believe that your Bible and God is a myth invented by man, however indoctrination into religious idealism is a very powerful drug.

          Liked by 2 people

        2. Statistical evidence. I already posted this.
          ”There’s no way back for religion”
          https://attaleuntold.wordpress.com/2018/12/15/why-there-is-no-way-back-for-religion-in-the-west/

          Science, for all its worth, doesn’t show that the Bible is myth or fiction.

          Of course it does! Are you being purposely obtuse?
          Proofs are for mathematics.
          Science deals in evidence. The evidence that refutes the biblical tales is irrefutable
          I listed the archaeology that refutes the Exodus and the alternate history that is supported by evidence. You already read one of John Zande’s posts and this position is now the archaeological consensus- even among a great many theologians.
          The Noachim global flood tale is a complete fabrication, and only a complete moron such as Ken Ham would think otherwise.
          Kenyan’s dating of Jericho has never been successfully assailed. It stands, and also refutes the biblical tale.
          The Human Genome Project refutes the nonsense of Adam and Eve and only a complete indoctrinated fool denies evolution.
          So therefore, to deny this is to be willfully ignorant.
          That is your choice, of course.

          Liked by 1 person

        3. cumbriasmithy

          While pillage and plunder is motivated by human greed, it’s justified by religious ideology. Hitler’s ‘final solution’ was informed by centuries of religious bigotry and mirrored the reasons religious apologists now give in support of the Israelite conquest of Canaan. Moreover, Israel claims it’s occupation of Palestine is justified via a covenant with God and millions of Christians lend their support based on purely on their belief that the Bible is the word of God. But once you eliminate the religious pretext, the real motivation for this dispossession cannot be hidden — it’s greed, pure and simple.

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          1. Sorry, yes, I realised I used the wrong word as soon as I’d hit ‘Post Comment’ and knew I wouldn’t be let off that mistake. So let me try again.

            Eh? No restraints at all?

            If you mean it in the context you describe, what restraints do apply then?

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          2. I’m sorry I don’t know what you are getting at. I’m not talking about having to attend the vicar’s tea party. If you were a catholic without it’s restraints you could chose to use contraception for instance. If you were a Jehova’s witness without it’s restraints you could chose to give blood. If a muslim you could chose not to fast, a jew, eat a bacon sarnie and so on and so on. Understand what I meant or do you want me to list everything that religions have control over?

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          3. Oh, I see. You therefore mean unwarranted religious shackles I presume. That’s different. I have good news for you, because I can offer Biblical, non-conformist Christianity which places none of the restraints you list on the believer. Arkenaten, however, will frown on your desire for bacon butties.

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    2. Secularism is doing just fine now, and in my opinion is a much improved replacement over religion.Religion relies on make believe, ignoring the facts which it doesn’t like. Whereas science sees things as they are (desirable or not), and is continually improving all the time to make this world a better place.

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      1. ‘…science … is continually improving all the time to make this world a better place.’

        Is it succeeding though? I guess it depends what you mean by ‘better’.

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        1. We can debate on what we mean by ‘better’. But succeeding? flip yes! There are many improvements which have come about by science. Improvements such as antibiotics, vaccines, vastly improved life expectancies, I could go on all day…

          Liked by 4 people

          1. Science has brought immeasurable improvements to the quality and length of life. Physical improvements, yes, but spiritual? Probably not and there are too many ‘spiritiual’ people in the world for it to be dismissed as unimportant.

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          2. Spiritual?
            How has spirituality helped fight poverty or disease in any way whatsoever?

            You arrogant, ignorant, self-centered prat!

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          3. Maybe you don’t have many people in your life who have ‘souls’, Ark. I’m talking about the aspect of humanity which is more than just flesh, bones and brain. The ‘inner being’, the indefinable side of our psyche which can’t be attributed to physical chemistry alone. You must have come across people like that surely?

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          4. No. That is all woo-woo.
            It can all be attributed to physiology/neurology in one form or another.

            And I am still waiting for you to offer an honest answer regarding archaeology/paleontology/geology etc that has demonstrated the Pentateuch is nothing but a Jewish foundational myth.
            You can start with Noah’s Flood story.

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          5. Yes, exactly, it IS ‘woo-woo’, but why? Why is the world still full of ‘woo-woo’ people despite this being an age of science and advanced education? Is there a scientific explanation for that? Will ‘woo-woo’ ever disappear?

            Regarding the archaeology/paleontology/geology thing, there’s no way I can explain the evidence (or in most cases a lack of it) because I’m not an expert in those subjects. I’m not an expert in pre-history and I’m not a historian, so I, like you, have to believe what I’m told by others. There are feasible explanations for the Genesis account and there are feasible explanations for the account of the Flood. However, if I were to dismiss the Bible as fabricated I would be left with as many questions as I’d had answered. Jesus, in his life on earth, used hyperbole, so I’m therefore open to the Old Testament containing hyperbole and figurative language, and intelligence is needed in order to try to determine what is what isn’t.

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          6. cumbriasmithy. Here is a good you tube video for Christians that I came across that gets right to the point about Jesus.

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          7. Can somebody start trying to answer my questions please? I’m hoping to discover why there are so many ‘woo-woo’ people in the world (and especially the West) despite the highly sophisticated scientific education they now receive. Any thoughts?

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          8. Cultural indoctrination, usually begun from childhood.

            Skip indoctrinating children for a single generation and see the difference.
            In fact, it is already happening.

            Look at all the supposed outrage that certain Christians express year in and year out because of the supposed persecutions and assaults on xmas.

            You are a dinosaur, cumbriaS,
            Fortunately for you you’ll go extinct without the help of an asteroid.

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          9. I haven’t had my questions about drugs answered yet. It’s already happening before our very eyes. Woo-woo IS the new religion, haven’t you noticed?

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          10. Why did people once believe chucking babies into volcanoes or burying them in post holes was a way to curry favour from gods?
            Furthermore, in such a relatively advanced technological age that we live in why do some people behave like Nobs and worship a blood sacrifice called Jesus Christ who is nothing but a narrative construct.

            I accept what I am told solely if the evidence supports the claims made and these claims are further supported by the consensus of experts.
            Also , I am reasonably intelligent and am capable of understanding that the bible account of the flood and the Exodus for example are works of fiction/ foundational myth.

            Please tell me the feasible account of the biblical flood you currently accept.

            Also please be open enough to state exactly what you believe so as to avoid any further misunderstanding on our part.

            Let me start you off …
            Do you accept evolution?
            Yes or No.
            Please note. There is no middle ground.

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          11. For a start. What, exactly, is evolution – your own understanding of it? Do you yourself believe in Macro Evolution as well as Micro? If you believe in Macro Evolution do you have any evidence for it? I can believe in Micro. So a simple yes or no is impossible, and I think you know that.

            Noah’s flood. The purpose of the account of the flood was to show humanity that God can not only create life but He is also able and willing to exterminate it. God gave humanity the best rules to live by at that time in the form of the Ten Commandments (and if you don’t think Moses wrote them, who do you believe did?) which they failed to follow or even both with. The flood may or may not have covered the entire globe, but it probably covered and exterminated the population of that place and era.

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          12. In fact this is a Yes or No question.

            That you blather about types of evolution immediately tells me you have little or no understanding, and are simply trying to insert a theological perspective.
            There isn’t one.

            That you also try to put a Goddidit spin on the flood shows quite clearly you have no real interest in science.

            We’ve engaged before over the Exodus and yet you still come back with the same tripe.
            Why is that? You have been directed to the evidence.
            You have been made aware of the Internal Settlement Pattern.
            You have been made aware of the archaeological consensus that the Captivity, Exodus and Conquest are merely geopolitical foundation myths.

            There seems little point in reengaging when you continue to reply in the same ridiculous manner.

            That you are now trying to hedge your bets, tells me you are nothing but a disingenuous fucking idiot.

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          13. Err how do we define ‘spiritual’ here? All sorts of people with conflicting beliefs and religions claim to be ‘spiritual’. This isn’t something which we can detect with our senses, so I think it’s a load of hogwash.

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          14. @cumbriasmithy
            Please give a concise definition of “soul” and what it does

            What are the characteristics of people with souls and those without one that can’t be attributed to physiology/neuroscience

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          15. @Jonathan: I can provide as good a definition of the ‘soul’ as you can of consciousness. It’s difficult to define, it’s our self-awareness, our memories, our thoughts, it’s what makes me me and you you. But it’s impossible to define in scientific or physical terms.

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        2. You certainly have a downer or science don’t you, Yet I’m sure sure you embrace the advantages it has provided, indeed by commenting on blogs using the internet is one of them. As for soul, psyche or whatever you like to call it this a human condition. As far as I’m aware, and I have no scientific or medical background, this is something that is purely in our brains. As a species we have evolved over a great many millennia from thinking of no more than survival and procreation to having plenty of time on our hands to sit and contemplate our navels. You don’t have to be religious or spiritual to be kind to others, that is just being civil.
          If your faith is based around the fear of death, the unknown, and the desire that you will enter ‘heaven’ I feel you are clutching at straws, very brittle straws. All religions seem based around this ultimate goal. So how many heavens are there? Do they each have their own god? What about other animals do they have a heaven, and all other forms of life like bacteria?
          As to your offer of the biblical non-conformist christianity. Thanks but no thanks, I prefer my fairy stories written by Stephen King.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. @blhphotoblog: I don’t have a ‘downer’ on science. In fact I believe science and enjoy it. What I don’t believe in is science as the be-all-and-end-all, because it simply isn’t and never will be. Do I fear death? Yes of course I do for the simple reason that it’s the end of my earthly life. If I was in constant pain or a state of total disability I wouldn’t fear death and would probably wish for it. However, what I anticipate and hope for is to be in the presence of the One I believe is the Creator of everything. If He can create the vast universe I want to get to know Him and the prospect of oblivion after death is the worst of all outcomes – a wasted eternity.

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          2. Oh dear I fear you maybe disappointed, however that is your faith so I shouldn’t knock it. The problem I have is that all the family and friends who have died (quite a number), some being followers of religion, not one has had the decency to contact me and say “Oi you bloody idiot get on your knees and start praying the christians are right all along”. Then again I haven’t visited a clairvoyant or used a ouija board so perhaps I’ve missed the chance!
            The way I see it is this when our time comes, if you are correct then you and your brethren can look down on us miserable sinners and have a good old ‘told you so’ moment. If on the other hand and I prove to be right and there is nothing, zilch, zero well I won’t be able to say ‘told you so’ but I will have enjoyed my life and done everything I wanted and not wasted a second fretting if I’m good enough to enter the pearly gates or be sent to be toasted.
            I’m somewhat surprised that you keep visiting this heathen athiest blog, why? Are you curious how the other half live or are just feeling a tad lonely? Maybe like others of your belief you just like stirring the sh*t for a laugh.

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          3. I didn’t realise your invitation was to discuss just that topic, Ark. You obviously hold the OT historical apparent inconsistencies as vital reasons for your disbelief. Unfortunately I can’t explain them, and they do concern me, but should I give up everything I believe simply because of them? Ironically, I believe the Bible because of the fact that it’s possible to disbelieve it. Would you like me to explain?

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          4. I was merely answering Brian’s question. You are more than welcome to comment on any topic. I just wish you would stop feigning honesty and sincerity and engage the topics with a modicum of integrity.

            The historical inconsistancies have been explained, and I have pointed them out several times. You simply refuse to acknowledge this fact and continue to behave like a Creationist Nob.

            In truth, yes, you should not believe the bible because it is nothing but historical fiction. Ask any deconvert which is better.
            But freedom of choice allows you to behave like an ignorant fool.
            As long as you have the decency not to try to indoctrinate kids, or demand such beliefs be recognised in the public square then you should be absolutely free to believe whatever idiocy you like.

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          5. I was invited here by Arkenaten for honest and intelligent discussion, that’s why. If I were to give up my belief in Jesus Christ I would have far too many unanswered questions, so I’m trying to discover what other people’s answers to those questions might be, and also, maybe naively, to help you guys think about them yourselves. I care about other people enough to at least present the Christian Gospel with a view to giving them some hope for eternity. I have time on my hands because I’m a semi-retired handyman with very few jobs on at the moment. If this goes against the ethos of your blog, Arkenaten, do tell me to leave.

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          6. Let me explain where I’m coming from so you can understand my point of view.
            When you have both parents die from premature heart attacks and relatives die slow painful deaths due to cancer, when I have friends die in motorcycle accidents, one literally cut in half by a drunk driver, and you attend their funerals and a priest stands there and says ” Everything is ok now they are with jesus” my jaw hits the floor, WHAT? When I see war, starvation and natural disasters around the world claiming millions of innocent lives and people like you tell me there is a god how can this be? What sort of god would allow this to happen? In my eyes a very sick, perverted god!
            If you honestly believe when you die you are going to heaven I’ve got some news for you, according to those nice jehova’s witnesses who drop round only they are going to heaven! So best you buy a copy of the ‘watchtower’ and get yourself down to the local kingdom hall! Then the muslems reckon they are the only ones going to heaven, so a bit of a dilemma going on, who do we believe? Or the buddhists or the hindus, choices, choices.
            I don’t think Ark will ask you to leave, however when he asks simple questions he expects straight forward answers, no hand waving round and round replies. There is enough of that from the other idiots who call themselves ‘christians’ but you are rubbing him up the wrong way he is certainly calling you some choice names!

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          7. I’m sorry you’ve had such a difficult time, blhphotoblog, but is it rational to draw the conclusions you have? Does the early death of your parents and your friend mean God should (assuming He exists) guarantee a long life to every one of his earthly creatures? And does it also mean He should prevent us making mistakes, having accidents or getting the wrong end of the stick about things? If He did, we wouldn’t be free would we.

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          8. Don’t talk bollocks, as I said if your god exists he (?) is one very sick entity to let so many millions suffer and expect people to worship him! Get real.

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  2. @cumbriasmithy (if you’d release that white-knuckle grip on the Bible, you’d be a lot happier. Really)

    And I, a mere ignorant miserable and down-trodden sinner, having left the church of my youth, have been cast out among other heathens or back sliders, to wander, unguided, weeping, searching, searching (throws back the cowl. How’m I doin’, here?) for answers, questions, breakfast…

    And I’ve never been more content, more at peace with myself, than I am right now.

    Time for coffee and toast and sunrise.

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  3. I’m glad for you. I guess I too could sit back and enjoy my own life if wished, but I’d then start to think about it all. Why am I here, what’s the point, is there something I should be doing for somebody other than myself?

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    1. @cumbria: I don’t worry about the ‘why’. It just is. The purpose of my life is to cause as little pain as possible to anyone, to ‘give back’ (and yes, we do that), to think about what comes after me. The guiding ethic in my life (and my husband’s) is the sign you usually see on mountain hikes: “Pack it in, pack it out. Leave the forest a little cleaner than it was.” Seems to be a good way to live.

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      1. Good way to live, for sure Judy. I just wish our politicians would understand this in regard to temperature change on our planet. Our Aussie Prime Minister has religious nut ideals and is not interested in the planet as he probable expects the rapture any day now, but is fighting for religious freedoms to be able to discriminate against children and teachers that do not stack up along with his Biblical definitions. Sad really, however he is cutting his own throat.

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        1. @sklyjd: your prime minister sounds a lot like our Prime Fool, cold comfort that may be…the Rapture sounds like it might be doing us all a favor, eh…

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    2. cumbria — Methinks you have too much time on your hands.

      You’re here. Period. Why question it? Why does there have to be a “point’? Just enjoy each day as it comes. And when your time on this planet ends … just go with the flow. You’ll either end up in your “heaven” … or you won’t.

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      1. But, have you noticed this is never enough for the terminally blinkered?
        Yes, of course you have!
        How ironic that the god-botherers have no evidence to appease the beating heart of uncertainty either.
        So you have to open the car window, chuck out all common sense , critical thought, etc and submit to ”Faith”.
        And while your hands are together in prayer Jesus will take the wheel.

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        1. god-botherers have no evidence — Oh but! (As you pointed out) … they have FAITH!! That intangible, immaterial, wondrous asset that allows them to view life as having a lovely rose-colored hue. What more could you ask for?

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