The Trinity – Three Times More God and Three Times More Headache.

Irrespective of my other views on the biblical character Jesus of Nazareth, I have never sided with belief that he is the god, Yahweh.

And there are a few Christian sects – the Christadelphians to name one – who flatly reject the notion that Jesus is God(Yahweh).

As these proper Christians obviously annoy the Gehenna out of True Christians ™  I am, in my own way, firmly disposed to like them.  Go the Delphos en Christos.  

Even more surprising, but under the circumstances maybe not so surprising after all, is that at least two Christian bloggers I am aware of, who apparently reject formal religion – one even said he hates it – have become Jesus-Followers and  fully embrace the Doctrine of the Trinity.

How can one reject formal Christian religion yet retain one of Christianity’s foundational tenets?

Simple: Because the notion of the Trinity – a tri-une godhead is not one of Christianity’s foundational tenets, but a Dogma developed over several centuries.

It was all the disputes and internecine fighting  over the nature of  the biblical character, Jesus of Nazareth that was the primary reason behind the Council of Nicea; called by your friend and mine, Roman Emperor, renowned humanitarian, child murderer, wife murderer and True Christian™ for all ages , Constantine the Great.

We ought to take a moment to reflect and try to put a few things in perspective, as we are talking about an event – the first Council of Nicea, that was the forerunner of establishing doctrine that would define the path that the Christian Church took from hereon out.

So, here we are,  in the 4th century, and the Christians are still fighting about the nature of their god, the biblical character, Jesus of Nazareth, 300 plus years after his supposed death!

It is very important to let that sink in.

If they were fighting over his nature for over 300 years it doesn’t take a genius to realise that no one knew  for sure anything about Jesus of Nazareth and based on biblical text, Jesus most definitely did not consider himself to be God/Yahweh.

So it is really silly to assert there are “hints” in the Old Testament or that a phrase such “Let us …”  in Genesis suggests the Trinity.

It took a Roman Emperor to get the Church factions around the proverbial table and hammer out a Doctrine of the nature of Jesus of Nazareth. Basically, to put it in its  crudest terms, it was decided by vote. And we know it was not Done and Dusted even then!

Look at the history…

 

Which makes this comment by a Trinitarian Jesus Follower all the more ridiculous.

Your conspiracy theory on the Trinity is pure mythology, Ark. That may work on the gullible, uninformed Christian, but not with people who actually have studied it out. Not only was it being fully developed as a doctrine from the first century on, hidden in the Hebrew texts from Genesis on, we can show it from Jewish and Rabbinic teachings, which I can show at another time. 

 

And as author H.G .Wells wrote: ”There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity, at any rate from him.”[48]

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31 thoughts on “The Trinity – Three Times More God and Three Times More Headache.

  1. Many Christians now a days who SAY they reject religion really don’t. It’s a ploy to make themselves feel more accommodating and tolerant, and others think they are too. But when push comes to shove and they are stressed to present their beliefs… They are just as, if not MORE religious in the Christian faith than they are willing to honestly admit upfront.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Oh, yes, indeed!
      And we have evidence of it all over the Blogasphere.
      How, for example, can one supposedly drop out of mainstream religion, claim to ”hate” it even, to then state one is now a Jesus Follower, then go and become an ordained Pastor and begin to preach … from the bible, emphasizing the Trinity?

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Exactly so. Christianity is religion, not relationship. Unless one can have a relationship with someone who isn’t there and they have never met in person and must ‘imagine’ they are conversing with in ‘prayer’. Equally imagining that he is responding…

        Liked by 1 person

      2. But ark, not all True or religious Christians accept the trinity as a biblical teaching. UPC and Apostolic Pentacostals reject the doctrine for many of the same reasons you point out

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Which makes the Jesus Follower’s assertion that I am dabbling in conspiracy theories typical of the disingenuous nature of certain Christians … or Jesus Followers if you will, or their unfortunate ignorance due to severe cultural indoctrination.
          Though how one can honestly claim genuine ignorance when the history is there for all to research is quite beyond me.

          Liked by 3 people

  2. An excellent brief monograph Ark. Well done.

    Since you’ve sufficiently touched on the non-stop bickering and controversies within all of Judaism surrounding 1st century Messianism, which also lead to early-Christianity’s severe past & present fragmentations, I will briefly mention today’s epidemic of biblical-theological illiteracy throughout Western Christianity and most certainly American Christianity. This does NOT exclude American seminaries either, nor their fly-by-night spin-offs! If I may Ark…

    In 2015:

    Christians claim to believe the Bible is God’s Word. We claim it’s God’s divinely inspired, inerrant message to us. Yet despite this, we aren’t reading it. A recent LifeWay Research study found only 45 percent of those who regularly attend church read the Bible more than once a week. Over 40 percent of the people attending read their Bible occasionally, maybe once or twice a month. Almost 1 in 5 churchgoers say they never read the Bible—essentially the same number who read it every day.

    […]

    But it’s more than simply not knowing stories from Scripture. Our lack of biblical literacy has led to a lack of biblical doctrine. LifeWay Research found that while 67 percent of Americans believe heaven is a real place, 45 percent believe there are many ways to get there—including 1 in 5 evangelical Christians. More than half of evangelicals (59 percent) believe the Holy Spirit is a force and not a personal being—in contrast to the orthodox biblical teaching of the Trinity being three Persons in one God. As a whole, Americans, including many Christians, hold unbiblical views on hell, sin, salvation, Jesus, humanity, and the Bible itself.

    There is little excuse for anyone living in Western Civilization, particularly Christians, to not know or read the Bible.

    What a profound epiphany! Just for starters, “…it’s more than simply not knowing stories from Scripture.” From a Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life survey, Athiests and Agnostics score significantly higher on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of Christianity and major world religions. Here’s that article to the 2010 Pew Research survey; a great read!

    http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/

    One particular graph in that report was particularly telling: Education-level Attained Linked with Greater Religious Knowledge. As of 2015 only 32.5% (36% max age 25-34) of American adults have a bachelors degree or higher, many of those are of Asian descent, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. And THIS is a VERY telling article about American Christians…“Survey Finds Most American Christians Are Actually Heretics: Americans talking about theology sound about as competent as country singers rapping.” Here’s that link:

    http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/10/survey-finds-american-christians-actually-heretics/

    And to your point and post Ark:

    Seven out of ten respondents in LifeWay’s survey affirmed the doctrine of the Trinity—that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three Persons but one God, and six in ten agreed that Jesus is both human and divine. Their orthodoxy—and consistency—ended there. More than half went on to indicate that Jesus is “the first and greatest being created by God,” a heresy known as Arianism, which the Council of Nicaea condemned in 325 A.D.

    Of course, most of these accidental blasphemers aren’t preparing to revise the resulting Nicene Creed and preach a creaturely Christ. Rather, bizarre contradictions like this illustrate how many Americans don’t understand or even care what the Trinity means (although they say they believe in it, likely out of habits learned growing up in church).

    But alas, if any of you want to truly, precisely figure all this out, then PLEASE go here!… 😛

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_true_church

    Thanks Ark. May we pray the Almighty (whomever It/She/He is/was) shoots down some useful intellect, reasoning, and basic human decency upon this Pale Blue Dot of a rock. 😉

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Hello Professor. You must either read super fast or you study all the time. 🙂 So following the idea of Americans knowing or not knowing. What did you think of the total uproar triggered by N.P.R. tweeting out the Declaration Of Independance and the entire right wing going off the rails. Some of the reply tweets were so angry and incendiary. Hugs

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Scottie, what an excellent question/mention! Well done! I definitely want to share my implied thoughts about American students over the last 30-40 years — especially the deemphasizing and defunding of the humanities in our core curriculums — by sharing a funny short clip of The Andy Griffith Show (set in Mayberry, North Carolina) and representative of 67.5% or slightly less, of Americans today between ages 24 – 65 and their knowledge of American political foundations as well as reckoning the applications in every day life.

        Liked by 1 person

  3. Much of the NT “scripture” was written by dudes mining the OT for evidence to support their viewpoint. That they did this with (mostly) the Greek translation of the Jewish books indicated that they were not conversant in Hebrew and, the fact that they did it so poorly indicates that they were not particularly good at their job (interpreting scripture), much like today’s apologists.

    Even a cursory examination of some of the “foundations” of the NT in the OT show very few of them hold up. So, the Jesus story was an evolutionary process. This is why so many Christians quote the Book of John today. Being the last gospel to have been written into the canon, it has quotable bits supporting the Christianity that won out over all of the other Christianities. The quoters think that John is the word of God when it isn’t even the word of John. No one knows who wrote the thing, only that he wrote to support the then current form Christianity had morphed into.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Completely agree Steve. And if I can respectfully add another critical factor in your accurate history please…

      The military might, from the Accencus up to the Praetorians, and the sociopolitical influence of the 1st- thru 4th-century Roman governors throughout the Empire, onto earliest-Christianity to the 1st Nicene Council cannot be overstated!

      Most if not all of the doctrinal reforms and welfare system started by the heretic Yeshua and his movement “The Way” were eradicated after both Jewish-Roman Wars (66 CE — 136 CE) for citing too much dissension and insurrection fueled by incessant Messianic fervor. Enter the Roman citizen and Jewish Pharisee from the heavily Greco-Roman province of Asia Minor and the largest city Tarsus with its renown university.

      In light of the former and latter, it is not a stretch to plausibly conclude that the modern NT is a severely amputated remnant of actual events and testimonies of the time with strong (overbearing?) associations to Greco-Roman Paulinian extrapolations more conducive to a Roman-style “church” or social-welfare system. Fourteen of the 27 books of the NT are traditionally attributed to Saul/Paul! A close examination of the ascetic sects of the Dead Sea Scrolls reveals a major riff between Jewish Messianism and Roman-Judean Messianism and Yeshua/Jesus was smack in the middle of it. But on which side? 😉

      Anyway, don’t take my/our words for it. All you “true” Christians-Jesus-followers set aside your (blind) “faith” for a week and do the extensive impartial research and study yourselfs! Hah!

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Professor. I am thinking of my time in the church and in church school. I was only in it for at most two years, more likely less and my motivation was less than religious or god originated. So I met a lot of fellow teens who were just going through the motions, to either please parents, bosses who were friends of their parents, or to be with other kids their age who felt as they did. I think what post is about, the research done by you guys, especially the fact that what was the original worshipers who had the most direct knowledge of the “person of Jesus” were killed off basically. This information needs to be boiled down until it fits on a plaque and that plaque needs to be affixed in a clearly accessible easy to read place in all Christian churches and schools. It would really help the above mentioned population that seems confused as to what religion they are really following.

        One last point I would ask for your thoughts on. Ark sort of mentioned it. People who do deny / not follow the “bad god” parts of the bible. Those same people who seem go beyond cherry picking to making up a whole religious faith based on how they see / feel Jesus should be. The “touchy feely” Jesus. More and more people are like this, have this view as their faith. So as they seem to be making a whole new religion with a whole new God, what should they be called? Are they christians? Are they Jesuses or Jesusians? Please give me your ideas. Thanks. Many hugs

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Scottie, your narrative about your 2-years in church-school and in church is telling and pretty common in the U.S. I’ve cited before a poll/survey that asked segments of the America population (18 –
          70 yrs of age) about why they have chosen their particular faith-beliefs. Your personal assessment corroborates the survey. Essentially their choice boiled down to ONE pragmatic reason — not theological or miraculous at all: How will this “choice” benefit me and/or hurt me? See, in the end it really has little to do with any actual truths.

          To your question(s) “What should they be called?

          By their first name. I don’t mean to be smart-assy at all, just practical, a minimalist. Hahaha. But seriously, be WHO you are not what you are or should be according to society’s norm.

          “Patterning your life around other’s opinions is nothing more than slavery.”
          — Lawana Blackwell

          And most definitely on the otherside of that spectrum, do NOT become so damn self-absorbed that you turn into a certifiable megalomaniac like our U.S. President! 😮

          Liked by 1 person

  4. Of course, most if not all religionists start from the anthropomorphic premise that their deity is a super-daddy in the sky. If that is abandoned, plausible speculations can be entered into regarding more sophisticated explanations even for matters such as the Trinity. These would have to be on a scale far beyond the intellectual capabilities of blind ‘believers’, regardless of their academic qualifications. The one unproven aspect which would need to be accepted as a working hypothesis is ‘life force’ or ‘spirit’, separate and distinct from chemical reactions or electronic impulses found in an organism.

    Liked by 3 people

  5. hidden in the Hebrew texts from Genesis on, we can show it from Jewish and Rabbinic teachings, which I can show at another time.

    Ark whenever you have time, please ask for this evidence.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Oh, I am assured he will soon be doing a post, no doubt demonstrating his vast in-depth knowledge of the origin of Trinity.
      I suspect , however, it will be nothing but another screed of apologetic theological cherry-picked drivel.

      Until then I must stay on topic and not try to lead the Pastor down rabbit holes or something.

      Liked by 2 people

  6. but a Dogma developed over several centuries… and pilfered from other, much older, religions.

    In Zoroastrian we have Ahura Mazda (the Father), Spenta Mainyu or Vohu Mana (the Holy Spirit), and Asha Vahista (the Logos, or Son):

    “Praise to thee, Ahura Mazda, threefold before other creations.”

    In the Egyptian ” Hymn to Amun” it’s written:

    ‘No god came into being before him (Amun)’ and that ‘All gods are three: Amun, Re and Ptah, and there is no second to them. Hidden is his name as Amon, he is Re in face, and his body is Ptah.’

    In Buddhism the Trikāya doctrine says that Buddha has three kāyas or bodies (from wiki):

    1. The Dharmakāya or Truth body which embodies the very principle of enlightenment and knows no limits or boundaries;
    2. The Sambhogakāya or body of mutual enjoyment which is a body of bliss or clear light manifestation;
    3. The Nirmāṇakāya or created body which manifests in time and space.

    Toaists treach of The Three Pure Ones who are regarded as the pure and singular manifestation of the Tao and the origin of all sentient beings. They are also called the Three Pure Pellucid Ones, the Three Pristine Ones, the Three Divine Teachers, the Three Clarities, or the Three Purities.

    In Hinduism, the trinity (Trimūrti, or The Three Forms) is of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. These three-in-one are called “the Hindu triad” or the “Great Trinity”

    In the Hindu Puranas there is this passage:

    ‘O ye three Lords! know that I recognise only one God. Inform me, therefore, which of you is the true divinity, that I may address to him alone my adorations.’

    In response, the three-gods-in-one (Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva [or Shiva]), replied,

    ‘Learn, O devotee, that there is no real distinction between us. What to you appears such is only the semblance. The single being appears under three forms by the acts of creation, preservation, and destruction, but he is one.’

    And the concept is even found with the Greeks. Aristotle wrote:

    ‘All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods; for, as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bounded by threes, for the end, the middle and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the Trinity'”.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Also, to use the Old Testament as an historical source of the Trinity, fully knowing that the Pentateuch is Historical Fiction, is yet another example of just how sly some of these buggers are.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. I’ve heard it said that the Trinity in in the OT… This section

        Isaiah 48:16:“From the beginning from the time that it was, I was there: (1st person) and now the Lord GOD (2nd person) and His Spirit, (3rd person) hath sent me (1st person).”

        Liked by 1 person

          1. Ark and John Z,

            Regarding the Trinity in the OT, the Reformed Theological faith/denomination (which I was a part of 10+ years) and their seminaries use these passages in the OT to define the Trinity: Isaiah 44:6, Micah 5:2, Job 33:4, and Genesis 1:1. Here’s one link to a brief explanation: http://www.wscal.edu/blog/basics-of-the-reformed-faith-the-holy-trinity

            Now of course, there are many NT (Paulinian) passages they corroborate to the four OT passages (and some others) to “reaffirm” or use as a doctrinal-confirmation — this is the essence of Reformed Faith & theology — of the Trinity, however, one can never escape the fact that both the OT and especially the NT are severely amputated, incomplete, accounts/testimonies, of a nomadic, often exiled, repressed people and THEIR OWN “icons” of an Abrahamic God spanning over 3-millenia!

            In other words, when your working with and basing ALL of your foundation, theology, doctrines, and practices from a “contaminated higly convoluted” crime-scene, if you will, what happens to the final prognosis/outcome? Trashed! Apriori gets too fucked up! 😛 One must start over NOT at the beginning, but before that! Then completely rework your entire “case”.

            Realistically, is that possible at this point in time? Realistically, how many faith-followers want to risk their entire world-view, reputations, lives, and Emerald City for an existence without their God and Holy Bible? Who has the gonads and stomach for that? Hahahaha!

            Liked by 3 people

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