Are you really Prolife?: Vegan Drops Truth Bombs on BBC Radio

Definitely worth a read.

The Recovering Know It All

Gospel Truth on a Sunday Morning

  • “Thou shalt not kill”
  • “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”

“There is no humane way to kill someone who doesn’t want to die.”

These apply not only to other human animals, but all others as well. The fact that we have Power Over them and the Ability to control, manipulate and kill them for our own purposes, in no wise says we have the Right to do so or that it is Right, Correct and Just that we do so.

Might does not make Right… no matter Who you are.

Our ‘Right to Life’ doesn’t outweigh their right to life unless we could not survive without animal products. The truth of the matter that most people don’t know or seem to fully understand is that we can not only survive, but also Thrive and be Healthier without them.

Cancer…

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95 thoughts on “Are you really Prolife?: Vegan Drops Truth Bombs on BBC Radio

    1. Let’s see. As the likes of Wally and James and Colorstorm etc will NEVER communicate on my blog I think you will find that ”our ” group will …. sadly … also be mostly silent. And we know why.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I thought the info graphic was amazing. It shows that the major impact on our environment is not fossil fuels, but animal agriculture for human consumption and products

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        1. Education is the biggest ”friend”.
          For me, it was always about ethics and confronting the real fact I was partaking in the wholesale slaughter of other animals.
          I could simply no longer pat and hug my dogs and cats while eating a chicken or fish or cow.
          I mean, I keep koi and goldfish as pets and even my wife regards them as pets, yet they will eat fish from the fishmonger!
          As did I once upon a time.
          We brainwash ourselves!

          Liked by 1 person

  1. The stats are certainly amazing. One wonders, though, if meat consumption was reduced substantially, what resultant actions brilliant humanity would indulge in as a worse substitute for the removed harmful effects. Let’s face it: a lot of things would change. Would they be allowed to change in the right way?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. One can become too wrapped up in what ifs.
      I stopped eating meat and dairy because of ethical reasons, which to me is the single most important reason.
      And if people began to stop eating other animals and using animal derivatives they might find, like me, their levels of compassion for all life around us increases.
      It has changed me, as you have likely seen with regard my ”bug ” photographs!
      As an experiment, try to reverse engineer where you get your ”wholesome” glass of milk and the process to get it.
      I was not aware of all the details, and I’ll bet most people aren’t fully aware of what goes on either.
      But once you do know … my gods … it is enough to make one almost physically ill, I assure you.
      It will thoroughly gross you out, not least for what happens to the calves.
      But we just do not think about it, or even know what goes on.

      And because of money and the con job we have all bought … the show goes on, and the focus of global warming for example is almost never turned on the animal slaughter industry.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I have lived on farms with owners who genuinely did care for their animals, which nevertheless introduced me to the realities, which I found acceptable as a part of nature. I have no problem with free-range eggs.
        As an unfeeling industry, there is no doubt a vast difference.
        As for ritual slaughter, you may have seen some of my periodic rants.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Supposedly Genuinely caring for animals that nevertheless end up on another animal’s plate is not really caring for them, any more than me feeding my dogs Bobbi and Cindy just so that once they are fat I can slaughter them and butcher them to eat.
          The moment I looked at eating meat in this light, I gave up immediately.

          The dairy industry is, sadly, utterly horrific.
          Our ignorance is our worst enemy and even after being made aware, few people are even willing to peek behind the veil.

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          1. I am in total agreement with campaigning against such practices — dairy farming as I experienced it was by no means horrific.
            As for the rest, one can get a bit overboard to the stage where one might try to protect all prey animals from predators to the detriment of both groups.

            Liked by 1 person

            1. Wait Col. What part of deliberately breeding dairy cows, and taking away their calves to use the milk for human consumption is not horrific? Not to mention slaughtering male calves because they are of no use in the dairy industry? That’s like saying there’s nothing wrong with the chicken industry. Breed chickens and knock the baby males on the head because they are of no use at all. Flawed logic. Well none really. Or maybe, as Ark says, not enough insight. The dairy industry certainly ain’t pretty. Nor is any animal industry.

              I bought some vegan cheese yesterday (I rarely eat cheese). Partner was unimpressed. Shit happens.

              Liked by 2 people

              1. Those are all the practices with chickens and livestock which don’t have to happen, and didn’t happen on the farms of my youth. Nevertheless milk and meat were produced, even if not on ‘industrial’ lines.

                Liked by 1 person

                1. Then if not for ethical reasons,would you not agree that to stop eating other animals is the right thing to do for the sake of the planet?

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                2. Ah … so it seems it is a case of how much of an impact rather than the fact it is having an impact.

                  How many acres of forest cleared for grazing land would you say would be the limit before you said … okay I’m not going to eat beef lamb,or drink milk?

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            2. dairy farming as I experienced it was by no means horrific.

              The average cow’s lifespan is almost 20 years.
              As a dairy cow it is around 7 years.
              They are continually inseminated to provide milk.
              They are restrained in what is literally called in the States, the ”Rape Rack”.
              Male calves are sent for veal.
              I won’t go into more detail about what happens to the cows when they are ”spent” and sent for slaughter. It might make you throw up. And I am not joking.
              I will,however, mention that a great many cows are pregnant when they arrive at the slaughterhouse. You can use your imagination …

              As for the rest, one can get a bit overboard to the stage where one might try to protect all prey animals from predators to the detriment of both groups.

              These are the type of arguments that we use to justify eating other animals and the predator prey argument is, in this case, completely irrelevant.

              The Chinese eat dogs. What is the difference between eating a cow and a dog?
              None at all.

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              1. As I have said, all practices which are not an essential part.
                Predator/prey arguments are, actually, completely relevant. Why are they not? There is, of course, no difference between eating dogs or cows on a rational level (I don’t know about taste), except that dogs have been smart enough to build an emotional bond with humans.
                What would really provide the planet with a boost would be if humans reverted to cannibalism.

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                1. You see, this is where the discussion becomes somewhat ridiculous, I’m afraid.
                  It’s hits at the heart of the whole dilemma – indoctrination and the refusal to see it for what it really is.
                  I mean, never mind eating meat, you don’t need to drink milk at all . But if you want something on your Cornflakes or in your coffee there are several milk substitutes out there. Almond milk for one.
                  How difficult would it be to switch? I’m serious.

                  Liked by 1 person

                2. The taste is a bit yucky, for starters.
                  Still, the argument reverts back to giving up milk for ethical reasons, or trying to get the ethics improved so that one can have one’s milk and eat it.

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                3. Taste buds adapt. On occasion I have accidentally put milk in my tea .. I know, crazy. And it has made me nauseous after only a couple of mouthfuls.
                  I’m serious. The taste grosses me out.
                  Same with coffee. I find it revolting with milk or cream.

                  What ”ethics improved”?
                  How does one satisfy a global demand for milk without industrial farming?
                  It is not possible.
                  Add this to the environmental damage and the only question that remains is why continue?
                  It is simply a matter of making a decision.
                  I stopped from one day to the next.
                  It is that simple.

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  2. I appreciate and support the message of veganism. The world would be a far, far better place if we altered our diet away from animal proteins. However, plants don’t want to be killed either. Earth’s cycle of life is wholly dependent upon death. Single-celled organisms are consumed by multi-celled organisms. Plants are consumed by herbivores. Herbivores are consumed by omnivores and carnivores. Most plants consume the decaying remains of animals to extract essential nutrients, and some even prey on living animals. Only the simplest of photosynthetic and chemosynthetic organisms can sustain themselves without relying on the death of other organisms. So, while I support veganism, I do question their moral argument about killing as a way to obtain food.

    Liked by 1 person

        1. I know. That’s why I raised the point.
          And when ”civilized” people were first made aware of it there was outcry, and now there are groups in China for instance that are campaigning to get it stopped.

          But what really is the difference between a mammal such as a dog and a pig?

          Liked by 1 person

                1. I was looking at the way we can convince ourselves that they are pets and not food.
                  As I mentioned, it is all about conditioning and the arguments we use to convince ourselves. And , yes, I was exactly the same.

                  I used similar rationalization when I smoked. Until the day I found I could not breathe properly, and I got the fright of my life. These days, after four years I am more or less fine. No coughing no shortness of breath, no yellow fingers no bad smells etc etc.

                  People worry about not eating red meat because of all, the bullshit they have been fed(sic).
                  From personal experience, I feel generally better and felt no loss whatsoever.
                  It’s all a mindset.

                  Liked by 1 person

                1. And this is the what I was referring to about allowing ourselves to be conditioned.
                  If one does not need to eat another animal then why do it?

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                2. People eat animals for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they don’t have many alternative foods to eat such as Eskimos. Sometimes they just like the taste. But, like I said before, eating plants is killing too.

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                3. I’m not trying to rationalize anything. Facts are objective, and morality is subjective. I see no immorality in eating animals or plants. If you do, that’s fine with me. However, I do see immorality in mistreating all life from a callous disregard for it. That includes the brutal confinement of farm animals, the clear-cutting of forests for profit, and other forms of exploitation. If this makes me “cruel” in your eyes, then so be it.

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                4. One of these objective facts is we don’t need to eat other animals … but we still do.
                  I realise we are all guilty of various levels of hypocrisy over this and many other issues, but much like religion for example so many people are simply ignorant of the facts and have been fed(sic) images that do not tell the truth of what really happens.

                  We freak out about the hunting of rhino and lion and elephant etc yet around a trillion animals are slaughtered every year just to satisfy taste.
                  And of course we forget there are other animal by products leather fur that are an industry on their own.
                  Of course there is a level of immorality in this, as the negative impact on the planet is huge,if nothing else.

                  If we completely overfish the oceans what sort of impact will this have on oxygen production if nothing else?
                  How can we go bananas about global warming while tucking into a plate of steak, egg and chips?

                  Liked by 1 person

                5. I completely agree, Ark. I do hope you appreciate my initial critique, though. All the points you raised here are solid except for the shaming of meat-eaters. It’s a weak argument because morality is so subjective.

                  We in the secular community rail against sanctimonious Christians, and they point to the Bible and yell “Believe!” We tell them to shove their arbitrary holy book up where the sun doesn’t shine. Veganism is a worthy cause. It will be best served by adhering to objective arguments. The morality angle just won’t work because it sounds too much like religion.

                  Liked by 1 person

                6. Yes, I realise the subjective aspect . I wrote that in haste and you were right to haul me over the coals for it! No probs.
                  I would rephrase this and say: I don’t want to eat and especially kill another animal as I would not want to be killed and eaten either.
                  I realise a lion might not care a stuff, but this is why I no longer live in a tree and wear a lion skin.

                  Liked by 1 person

              1. Dogs will eat just about anything. Cindy is the greatest consumer of cat poop I know. And she will eat cheese and anything else left out.
                Goodness knows what her previous owners fed her but she will eat everything, it seems.
                She snuck up on me one afternoon while I was standing on the stoep eating a sandwich. As I lowered my arm to my side she took a bite, cheeky bugger!

                Liked by 2 people

  3. You sound like me Ark. Be careful.

    It was a good post by Mike. I’ve seen and read it all before but it’s good to see others pointing out the issues. There’s a limit to my campaigning.

    FWIW I changed diets really slowly, firstly based on health, and then, for ethical reasons. Although … you can read about me buying some jamón when I get my next post up …

    I agree that saying there are caring farmers is a load of tosh. It’s a business. Animals = money. Hence BSE etc.

    Also, what else is really annoying is that men don’t choose not to eat meat, they only do it because their women are vegetarian. Aaaaagh. Okay, I’ll leave the sexism out of this topic but it is there. Soppy women don’t want to hurt the fluffy animals syndrome.

    And, the oh-my-god they put horsemeat in our beefburger scare or whatever it was some years back in the UK. Horse, cow, and the difference is?

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Mike’s post is excellent as it approaches the issue from the environmental destruction / global warming angle.
      Yes, there are bound to be areas where many vegetarians are still crossing the line – you pointed out to me the issue regarding leather shoes etc, but it seriously bothers me when I read: ”I support . .. am all in favour of” … yet they still eat other animals.
      I don’t push it either, but when someone like Mike puts up a post then hell yes, I’ll re-blog it.
      Like the religious thing, one may reach someone.
      I’ve mentioned before that my folks have been vegetarian for years, but my brother and sister and their lot are all vegan.
      And now me …

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      1. But the environmental perspective, which I think is a very sound reason, is pooh poohed (got that one wrong!) by so many.

        I think, the main issues are 1) indoctrination, we eat this so therefore … 2) well it’s nasty to eat animals but that’s life so we just get on with it 3) blind indifference, who gives a shit.

        My vegetarian posts are an attempt to be informative, but I try and keep them few and far between. Preaching ain’t welcomed. Unless you are a sinner of course.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. I also think people go into a sort of funk – like a minor panic as to what on earth they could possibly eat if they didn’t have meat!
          It is quite peculiar.
          I have on several occasions suggested that my lot try one of the veggie pies I eat. But there is a throwing up of hands as if I am trying to corrupt them.
          I mean, it looks and tastes almost exactly like a chicken and mushroom pie for gods’ sake, but without any gristle or ”odd bits” one sometimes finds in meat pies.
          One of my kids does not eat lamb … largely on some sort of ethical grounds … baa lambs and all that, I suspect … but has no qualms eating everything else.
          Weird. I say almost nothing these days.
          My sister semi-regularly posts vegan info on Facebook. The truly rough stuff. I can’t watch it. I did once and had nightmares for almost a week, and I am NOT kidding either.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. My parents, who flipped when we came out – as vegetarian – didn’t know what to eat as they grew older. They lived on parma ham and melon, mince pies and carrot soup. I think eating becomes difficult as we age. I mean, we’ve eaten everything before. It’s just boring. All of it.

            And that applies to veg food too. Yesterday I pigged out on (organic) cabbage, a potato and a small piece of quorn pie. Not fond of quorn. I love the salad and herbs from the garden, and basically anything plant-based.

            I read the articles years before the internet. Graphic photos. Ugh. Revolting. Blinkers pulled right down …

            Liked by 1 person

            1. I think eating becomes difficult as we age. I mean, we’ve eaten everything before. It’s just boring. All of it.

              Really? I love all sorts of foods. I never find it boring. But I am not a fussy eater at all.

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              1. Eating does become difficult as we age … but not necessarily because food is boring. It’s because some of the foods we’ve always eaten suddenly don’t agree with our systems. Heartburn is a very common malady. Unfortunately, I speak from experience.

                Liked by 2 people

                1. As we ”slow down” our digestive system sometimes rebels, just like other parts of our body we mistreat on occasion.
                  Regular exercise helps with all sorts of things … digestion included.

                  Liked by 2 people

                2. Regular exercise helps with all sorts of things … digestion included. HA! You sound like my doctor. 😀

                  Fortunately our weather has become a bit more conducive to daily walks. It’s been a very cold, wet, stay-indoors winter and I, for one, am glad to be able to get out and see/feel the sunshine!

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                3. It’s getting darn cold for us in the mornings down here. Sweat shirts and gloves for my morning constitutional.
                  As for digestion … I can honestly say I have almost no probs now that I am not eating any meat fish or chicken. But especially red meat and pork.

                  Liked by 1 person

            2. Hi rough-
              Little hypocrisy there, or selective reasoning?

              You in fact do kill the apple when you take its life from the tree, as do you the cherry, the pear, the strawberry and the pumpkin as you rip its life from the vine.

              But the real concern is not apples or steak. You should be concerned with the terra firma, the very dirt you walk on, whose voice protests against the feet of the atheist who tread upon it. It shouts out: how dare you invade my presence and trample me to death, while ignoring both Maker of your feet and the Maker of dirt!

              Then there are the rocks who cry out as they watch you gobble down other living plants while you cry that others are eating other living things. Geez, Then there are your leather belts, your purses, your shoes, your auto seats…..then there is that thing about water, which life you are also stealing as its source is denied.

              I could write a book on the ignorance of the hungry. Why bother though, as the brain of the atheist could not comprehend it. Malnourished and all that. 😉

              Like

              1. Hello Aslan

                Well, either one eats the fruit when it is ready to eat or we let it drop and rot. I think the former is more sensible and more sustainable.

                My earth is atheist too, so it is happy earth 🙂

                I don’t have leather belts, leather handbags, leather shoes, or leather car seats. Next?

                Oh, water. Yes, did you read the infographic?

                Your idea of malnourished is lacking in scriptural fantasies. Mine is people starving because of lacking basic food and water. Your god don’t feed the starving sweetheart. Not now, not ever.

                Liked by 1 person

                1. Ha. You got me. I nearly replied to that. Level playing field? Haha. A schoolfriend had her leg broken when her horse sat on her. Someone else we knew was killed when a horse sat on him. Pitch people against animals? No contest. Look at bullfighting. The most rigged ‘sport’ in the world.

                  And, one of the most pathetic excuses I’ve heard for some time. Let’s see, why not abuse women because they can’t defend themselves from sex slavery. Yes?

                  Liked by 1 person

                2. Sweetheart? Ha, you like Aslan? Maybe you never heard that roar. 😉

                  He knocks some reason into a person quicker than you can say ‘there is no God.’

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                3. He was furry and cuddly. I like furry and cuddly. As a child I had no notion of Lewis’s Christian obsession, so luckily that nonsense flew over my head and I just enjoyed the adventure, like most kids, of a mystical land reached through a magical wardrobe.

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                4. ‘A soft answer turneth away wrath.’

                  ‘The righteous tend to life.’

                  ‘Pure religion and undefiled before God is to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction….’

                  ‘Herod and Pilate became friends………….’

                  Yeah, these scriptures reek of mysticism………….

                  Yeah scripture is nothing but magic potions…………

                  Maybe you should read it RS with open eyes and an unbiased mind?

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                5. Better things to read – and do – in my limited time on this earth. You know, like promoting awareness of vegetarian/vegan diets, women’s right to health care and abortion, workers’ rights to a fair wage and reasonable conditions and hours, just minor things in the grand scheme.

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                6. Yep, all a matter of perspective and what we deem important or worthy.

                  Keep in mind though, that the roofs over your head, the roads you drive on, the bridges over the rough seas, the railroads laid that bring our medicine, the hospitals built to house the medical teams, the farmers that raise the crops, and the countless industries and commerce, were just minor things too, and btw, built mostly by the hands of men.

                  No sexism needed.

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                7. Who cares who built what?

                  Really? All a matter of perspective. You have inadvertently made my point, but since your time is precious, and since you have better things to do and read……….I should be so flattered to have arrested your attention…

                  Everyone should have a personal friendly lion on their radar, but don’t get too close, their cuddliness is quite deceptive. lol

                  Even Aslan was misunderstood as to His rightful fury. The male thing doncha know.

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  4. I don’t see any mention of economy here. It’s a eat or be eaten world we have here, unfortunately. If I’ve overlooked something I’m sure you will point it out.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. If you truly believe this then what would be the point of pointing anything out?
      It would be much like trying to explain to you why religion is bad.

      If we were to all follow your belief then we may as well throw in the towel and say to hell with everything.
      Fish the oceans bare … who cares right?
      As for the economy, if there was a way of making more money from not eating animals it would become a sure fire hit in an instant.
      The reality is , there is a ton of money to be made, but for now, for most people, the status quo is preferable.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. That’s about it. What I think or believe makes no difference. The fish they recommend are filled with mercury, the cattle, hogs, and chickens are filled with chemicals. I don’t know how I made to 80.

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        1. I disagree. Every change begins with the individual.
          The old adage : see a need and fulfill it or if no need is apparent, create one, is relevant in this case as it is in a great many other areas.

          Maybe if you stopped eating animals you might make it to 100?
          And you might anyways … and I hope you do … and beyond.

          If there was a truly valid reason to eat other animal there may be a case to be made … but there simply isn’t, so why eat them?

          Liked by 1 person

              1. Your reasoning seems over simplified. You and I are creatures of a society, like it of not. Man cannot live on cake alone.

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                1. Explain over simplified?
                  Eating meat is a choice, not a necessity.
                  If you eat meat simply because it cannot defend itself then it suggests your ethics are questionable and I cannot see you have much grounds to complain about someone such as Trump

                  Liked by 1 person

                2. Energy. I have oatmeal most morning, but even at my age it’s gone by 10. I worked hard in my younger years. As a Vegetarian I would have perished if not fired before that happened. I was a mechanic, heavy, hard 10 hour days. I had a house full of kids depending on me. Real life.

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                3. Scott, the thrust of the post is trying to address the ignorance and the lies we have all been fed(sic) regarding eating other animals. I am no exception to this rule and ate other animals without a second thought for around fifty odd years.
                  I understand what you are saying with regard when you were working -which, like most of us, was largely based on ignorance.
                  You appear to be still defending it on grounds that are at best willfully ignorant and at worst absurd and callous.
                  Feel free to correct me if I am misinterpreting your reasons.

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                4. I can’t argue with your reasons. I grew on a farm where we raised row crops, grains, beef and hogs. With the exception of a garden and orchard everything went into animal feed – corn, hay silage. Had people not eaten the animals we raised I would have grown elsewhere. I shall continue to eat animals, but I wonder about the mercury, chemicals in the meat I eat and the milk I drink, and the bio-engineering in the fruits vegetables and grain I eat. But there in an entire economy behind these things that concern me. It saddens me when a “bull-hauler” goes by with livestock headed for the bullpen. A cousin raises beef, feedlot beef, 1500 head at a time that have standing room only their entire life, north of Los Angeles near the town of Talare (sp?) where people who know claim at any given time there are about one million head of cattle waiting to be slaughtered. Sorry, it’s the world our leaders have created for us.

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                5. BY an large, nobody created anything that we did not let happen, either through ignorance (willful or otherwise) or being complicit.

                  You don’t have to smoke or drink and you don’t have to eat meat.
                  It really is that simple.
                  If you decide to stop then that is one less individual fueling the system.
                  If one hundred million people decided to stop then the impact will be felt.
                  One has to make the decision oneself.
                  But these days ignorance really is not that much of a reason any more.

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                6. I think there are more ignorant people now than ever before, in America they don’t teach times tables, cursive writing. If it’s on the Internet many think it must be so.

                  Yes, eating animals is a decision and I made mind l ways back.

                  Liked by 1 person

      2. Sorry, but I’ve watched everything go to hell right before my eyes. And then we have man who says he can fix it – Trump.

        Like

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