Oh, for god’s sake!

Posted on by Arkenaten

  1. I didn’t mention a specific name for God. (When I do, I call God “Frank.”)

    *I know God desires for us to have a relationship with him because I’ve used logic and reasoning to put the pieces together. As Silence explained to you on his blog–it will not make sense until you learn to think rationally. Once you realize there IS a God, it will become more obvious what He wants from you.

     

    *My emphasis.

If we were to exclude the bible from the equation one might still consider there was a creator entity/deity.

No doubt before written texts, humans wondered about such things as thunder and lightning, earthquakes and volcanoes, and deduced something was responsible … and usually this became someone- a god or gods.

But without the bible, or any so-called divinely inspired religious text for that matter, how would anyone “know” this creator-god wished to have a relationship with humans?

In fact, what logic and reasoning could one possibly apply without any sort of written or cultural foundation?

Can anyone offer an answer to this conundrum – using logic and reasoning of course.

Ark

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64 thoughts on “Oh, for god’s sake!”

  1. More to the question … who says there IS a “creator-god”? Oh that’s right — it’s all spelled out in that centuries old book. Sheesh. How could I forget? Still waiting for her/him/it/they to put in an appearance …

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        1. Well, she seems to … but is determined not to reveal how she arrives at such a conclusion.
          As a Christian, weren’t you supposed to ”make answer”?

          Seriously, did not the question arise regarding this ”Personal God” if the bible was removed from the equation?

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          1. Nope, the question never came up — at least in my “Christian” world. IOW, everything is what it is because …. the bible. To the believer, you just don’t/can’t separate the two.

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              1. No, I don’t think she’s “lying.” Once someone has “given their life to Christ,” there simply are no rational arguments that will deter them from believing “God” exists. It’s a “heart thing,” as opposed to logic and reason (Godsman has illustrated this through many of his comments here). They simply “know” their god is real.

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      2. Ark: I am not willing to make such a concession.

        Not because I’m a grumpy old dog but simply because the ages-old point raises it’s horrible hairy head and bites us on the bum, as always:

        Q. Who (or what) created that Creator entity?

        And as always the answers can only be either He/She/it created themselfs, or … a Godier God did so.

        But if It was clever enough to create Him/Her/Them/Etc selves … what blueprint did they use? And/or:

        why

        ?

        And if a Godier God then again we are faced with an insoluble infinite regression …

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        1. It is a simple point to concede in the same way as Russel’s Teapot.
          A claim is made but it is stopped dead in its tracks as there is nowhere else to go unless evidence is produced.
          It is the personal god that is the issue and this is what Christopher Hitchens always said: anyone who wants to tout this has all their work before them..
          This is why stupid idiots like this woman and her daddy are nothing but second-rate indoctrinated halfwits who couldn’t mount a decent argument even if Jesus His-self (sic) was standing next to them. They are without a theological pot to piss in or a logical, reasoned window to chuck it out of.

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          1. Oh, wow~!

            Often my comments are directed as much to any passing readers as to the addressee. But in view of your (actually … our) frustrations let me murmur en passant that you cannot reason with robots.

            A robot simply follows its programming—the best you can hope for is to insert a wedge into a bit of poor programming; but even that doesn’t always work. (You may remember how I had those Mormons run screaming from my home, and when they returned later (having been rererereprogrammed) I lost patience and threw them out on their butts?)

            To argue with a brick is to make an undeserved concession to the brick … but you may just open a few collateral eyes. I don’t bother these days, I just enjoy being sarcastic. (Spouse says it’s a waste of life, but what time is ever wasted spent enjoying yourself?)

            Personal gods are just that. JZ has his Veles, Linus the Great Pumpkin … I worship the fly agaric (a true lesson in divine humility).

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        2. What I find fascinating about this whole “creation” thing is the Christians don’t want to admit the universe was created out of nothing … but it’s OK that their god appeared out of nowhere. Hmmm.

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  4. Logic and reasoning, here, implies some sort of short-circuit, or a blown fuse there is a refusal to re-fuse.
    Or, having decided that there is a god and now wanting a relationship, wishful thinking makes them decide that’s what the god wants and not just themselves. A relationship? The god wants to be worshipped? Or confided in with stuff that must already be known? As a Meaning for Life, the Universe and Everything it is utterly puerile. Why can’t the religious seek some explanations for how and why things are without descending into assumptions that the petty and insignificant human race are at the core of things?

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  5. God has a plan for each and everyone of us. Now, where did I put my copy of my plan. Dan, I left it on the computer and the kids have been messing with it. I hope I kept a backup copy. I’ll have to get back to you.

    I keep asking these people what their plan is, not any old generic plan, their plan. I haven’t got a reply yet.

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  6. Here’s the most reasonable, logical argument you’ll ever find anywhere ever about God (really, I mean it). It’s from the Quran, the One, True, Book from the One, True, God: “This Book is not to be doubted…. As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them.”
    Quran 2:1/2:6-2:10

    Ya’ just can’t get more reasonable or logical than this. This book is not to be doubted, so don’t doubt it. See, easy peasy.

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      1. Indeed Mak I have often raised with folk like ColorStorm that their arguments in favour of their version of god are pretty much the same as those used by Muslims. Funny thing is I never get a response to such statements.

        I suppose the one thing that I can be thankful to the Islamic terrorists for is that their actions in the name of their religion mean that I really don’t feel any need to investigate that religion as the terrorist actions just reinforce that it can’t be supported by a divine entity.

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  7. So as I understand mrsmcmommy one only needs to assert a mythical being exists to then know what that being desires of you. Correct? So imagine this between Ark and myself.

    S: Unicorns exist and they want us to polish their horns while nude.
    A: What? Total Drivel. Even if there was Unicorns, which there is not a shred of evidence for other than your library book, how could you know what the Unicorn wants you to do?
    S: It is so clear! Look once you admit that Unicorns are real, then you KNOW without a doubt what the Unicorns insists / wants you do. What is not clear? What more proof do you need? You are just a Unicorn hater. Why are you so angry at Unicorns? Just admit it, the Unicorn showed me this about you.

    Well do I understand her correctly. IF so Ark I can not answer your blog question because as I understand reason and logic this doesn’t have either in it. Hugs

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    1. I think your fixation with unicorns simply makes you a Horny Person.
      Go and say three Hail Marys, and don’t you dare come back here ’til you have learned to behave, you naughty person, you!!!!

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      2. I just realized the hoof marks of our grand Stallion Unicorn have not entered your skin yet. May you be bless with feel his blessed kick in the ………….. ouch … 🙂 Hugs

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    2. I used to polish unicorn horns in the nude. Then, one fine day, I was bending over to pick up a can of unicorn-horn polish and WHAM! the unicorn who’s horn I was polishing put her horn where the sun doesn’t shine. Ouch! Anyway, I quit that job. Now I groom poodles in the nude. Less chance of surprise penetration this way. 🙂

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        2. Right that’s IT! This is a SERIOUS blog.
          I can’t be ‘avin’ with all these double intenders.
          What would Amanda say if she ever discovered logic and reason and came over here to read?
          I would not know where to put my face.

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    4. Scottie in one aspect the Bible is true, when it says that hypocrisy runs deep in humanity. Indeed it is in those areas where we are most critical of others that often we are weakest ourselves. Thus it is not surprising to see our Christian apologist friend criticise the logic of others.

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      1. Hello Peter, I think it is sad that if someone lacked a skill or ability that they wouldn’t learn or ask how from someone who showed the skill or ability. For example grammar is had for me so I spend time reading a blog about grammar. I don’t spend all day on it, but ten minutes here or there during the day. I have trouble spelling so I look for the red line and then repeat the proper spelling to myself. I have taught myself the proper spelling of many words so far.

        I guess she just needs to spend more time with the Unicorn that is trying to teach me to both think and to be reasonable in conversation with others. 🙂 Hugs

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        1. Scottie, remember the Dunning Kruger Effect, we recently applied to a prominent public figure. It seems to apply here also:

          What is the Dunning Kruger effect?

          Broadly speaking, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is defined as “a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability to recognize their [own] ineptitude.

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          1. Hi Peter. I think to some extent we all have trouble seeing ourselves as we are seen by others. Most of us try to take feedback to amend our behaviors. I would never want to have it said of me I was not willing to see my own faults while loudly commenting on the faults of others. However there are some as you say who are unable to take any criticism, who can’t accept any advice , can’t see the log in their own eye. I have a mantra: I will try to be a better person today than I was yesterday. I try to repeat that to myself several times a day, especially if I seem to be losing my temper or attacking someone. I am not perfect, I don’t require others to be. I am willing to learn and be reasonable and I do expect others to be.
            I love the conversations here. You can learn, join in, spectate, and be part of a community. Be well. Hugs

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            1. Scottie your self awareness and humility is the antithesis of the Dunning Kruger Effect. Rather if anything you undersell yourself. Your comments are invariably well considered and you are respectful of the opinions of others.

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  9. Those scientists who allow the possibility of a creator deity invariably conclude that based on the reality of human suffering and the arbitrary nature of disasters then any such deity must be remote from humanity.

    Indeed events like the Holocaust are very hard to reconcile with an activist God who has an enduring interest in the Jewish people.

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    1. John I suspect the other Christians who support them are using the logic of ‘my enemy’s enemy must be my friend’. If atheists were absent from the site then fellow Christians would most likely instead turn their attention to questioning the rather unorthodox interpretations being put forward by the Branyans.

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      1. It’s actually quite funny. James (Isiah Project) is there spouting Creationism nonsense, not even understanding the Branyan’s are not YEC’s. They agree evolution is real, but place the Oogity-Boogity somewhere in there.

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        1. James does puzzle me as he seems an intelligent fellow. My conclusion is that any reasonable intelligent Christian who supports YEC must have started with the result and then views all evidence through the prism of this predetermined outcome.

          Indeed I have concluded that worldview is so critical to how we think. It is now 25 months since I abandoned Christianity and I am only just starting to see practical changes in the way I think. At least I was never a YEC, probably I was pared that because my church tradition, Anglican, tended to be more ‘respectable’.

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            1. John the growing Pentecostal influence in Australian Christianity has all of the batshit crazy tendencies. I dabbled in Pentecostalism for around five years before I deconverted. Experienced some crazy things and really thought ‘the power of God’ was with me. But overtime I came to see that the ‘miraculous healings’ were not sustained and the ‘Words of God’ were not borne out.

              Even though I was an Anglican (not seen as ‘True Christians’ by most Pentecostals) the Pentecostal folk accepted me and even had me preach in their church. All while I was still part of the Anglican Church (indeed an ordained minister).

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  11. Something here for mrsmcmommey to chew over:
    http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-interpretation/first-person-misogyny-in-the-bible/

    As an example:

    in the Ten Commandments: “The wife is classified as her husband’s property, and she’s listed with the slaves and work animals. There is also a striking omission in this commandment: Never does it say, ‘You shall not covet your neighbor’s husband.’

    And this is the best that the all wise creator of the universe could do?

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